Audioman, i'm a bit confused as you remarked earlier that the Orbis is a noticeable improvement and were prepared to put a number on the difference, but you haven't heard the Orbis in your system? FWIW, I think the CD-5s as a cdp is an outstanding rbcd player at its price point, and my example is staying. The Reimyo CDP-777 had a better transport & superior processing (Extended K2 processing), but the Ayon has the edge elsewhere. An a-b comparison between those two players would be interesting. The CD-5s has an excellent pre for an integrated player. But i'm having a hard time with your estimate of the Orbis only providing a 5% gain over the 5s. Even an identical preamp as a separate pre should give a 5% improvement. And taking into account my earlier comments, i'd have to say i'm skeptical. But i'll reserve any judgment until i've done an a-b comparison between my upgraded CD-5s & the Orbis around the end of the year which should be interesting. Both pre's will be running identical tubes, so the 5s will have a fair crack. According to Gerhard Hirt, the Orbis has a rich, warm sound like the CD-5s, but it is a higher end pre with a newer, more refined design (even a little bit different to Spheris).