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Is preamp remote volume a deal breaker for you?

I've been looking for a quality active tube preamp with remote volume control. Most high quality tube preamps that are reasonably priced (ie, under $4000) do not come with remote volume. Those that do use the cheap motorized Alps pot (I've had bad experience with Alps), probably because it's cheap and widely available. I've seen some very expensive preamps us this pot, unfortunately. The two very high quality preamps I've read about are the SAS Labs 11A, Don Allens preamp, and Atma-sphere M3, but the designers refuses to implement remote because they believe the sound will suffer. Atma-sphere uses a huge hand assembled remote volume only for there expensive MP1. A preamp without remote is a deal breaker for me. How about you?
dracule1
palasr
530 posts
 
"...with the ability to drive long cables also came the ability to obviate the artifact of the cable itself- so the length and cost of the cable has no bearing on the sound of the system".

Ralph, Are you suggesting that Atmasphere owners could sell off those hi-end cables and run down to Radio Shack or Target for suitable replacements? No difference - they all sound the same?
dracule1 OP
1,085 posts
 
Do be honest, I know of an guy who has Atmasphere preamp and amps. He compared balanced interconnects made by Mogami, I think, and a high end cable manufacturer. He said the latter sounded better to him and bought the high end cable at a considerable cost. I have a hard time believing that with Atmasphere electronics, interconnects don't change the sound. I heard differences in interconnect sound in fully balanced system, although not Atmasphere.

For some people, having your equipment rack next to the listening seat may not be practical and may actually affect the sound from all the reflections from the rack next to you.

I still think a remote properly done will not affect the sound. Why would Atmasphere, or any other high end preamp desingers, have done it with the MP1 if this was not the case?
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,107 posts
 
The standard for balanced line is the output of the device driving the cable should be able to drive 600 ohms or less (in the case of microphones) without degradation (this calls for a fairly low output impedance BTW). If the cable is terminated at the input of the amp with a 600 ohm load, then you will hear no difference between a high end cable and a cheap one, ours, or one from Radio Shack. I saw this demonstrated in spades between our cable (which is Mogami) and a cable that retails for $1000/foot. The customer went back and forth between the cable over a period of 2 weeks until he realized that not only could he not hear any difference, but that the sale of the high end cables got him back most of the cost of his preamp (the cables were 24 feet long). He was ecstatic.

If the termination is not installed, then cable differences appear. Its a simple fact that most high end preamps have a problem driving 600 ohms and so the thought of such a termination 99 44/100% of the time is out of the question. But if it can be done, there will be no artifact of any cable. Now when we introduced the MP-1 back in 1989, it was the first balanced line preamp made. We figured everyone else would support the 600 ohm standard; boy were we wrong!

We installed the remote because people ask for it. Engineering one that does not affect the sound (and also fits in the unit so older preamps can be also updated) was/is the yardstick. Most of the remotes we saw at the time did cause some sort of artifact; I remember one very well-known tube preamp manufacturer that offered their first remote where the degradation was enough that dealers stocked up on the previous model to get away from the remote.

As an audiophile I am one of those that will not sacrifice the sound due to a remote. It does seem like I am the minority these days...
kschiu
73 posts
 
Deal breaker for sure.

I must ask ... can't they just standardize the loudness levels someday?
almarg's avatar
almarg
9,670 posts
 
07-26-11: Atmasphere
The standard for balanced line is the output of the device driving the cable should be able to drive 600 ohms or less (in the case of microphones) without degradation (this calls for a fairly low output impedance BTW). If the cable is terminated at the input of the amp with a 600 ohm load, then you will hear no difference between a high end cable and a cheap one, ours, or one from Radio Shack.... If the termination is not installed, then cable differences appear.
Ralph, I'd be interested in an explanation of why the termination is necessary. Why wouldn't simply driving the balanced cable with a low impedance driver be sufficient? Obviously less current would flow through the cable if the termination is not present, but I'm not sure why that would make a difference.

On an unrelated note, congrats on your re-done website. Looks great!

Dracule -- in my case, not having a remote would not be a deal-breaker. I have one at present, but I could easily live without it, as I did for many years in the past.

Best regards,
-- Al
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