Modern Linestages

When looking at the manufacturers costs to build a preamp lets be sure we understand that "audiophile" capacitors and other components like transformers, chokes, etc. should be based on wholesale, not retail costs. What I pay for a capacitor as a consumer is not necessarily what I pay for them as a manufacturer. Don't forget to add labor into the equation as well. Someone has to be paid to put it all together.

Other than that I think Knghifi nailed it. Simple circuit or not manufacturers will charge what the market dictates.

You can attend a fancy orchestra with excellent season seats for several years for the prices mentioned in this thread.

As the original post mentioned, it is just a linestage.

The time and resources that a stereo company spent making a $20k linestage is time and resources they did not spend to bring the costs down and distribute their product to "the masses".

You want to know why this hobby is dying? This thread is a perfect example. Why should sane people go for a $20k linestage rather than excellent seats at live performances? Go ahead, tell people you meet that you spent $20k on a linestage, go to the unemployment office and shout it and see what you get.

Trebejo, Your point could just as easily be lodged at BMW, Mercedes and Rolls Royce owners. They haven't done an especially good job of getting their costs down and spreading it to the masses either. Like it or not there will always be a better something or other. Scarcity is one thing that drives up cost but not the only one.
We all can't drive around in rich luxury cars but I do not bemoan those who do. We all cannot have totally exotic systems that mystify us as to how is this possible.
The implementation of simplicity is rarely inexpensive. Getting rid of impurities in resistors et. al.,, costs, design, R & D etc all add up. Then there is what will the market bear?
A tree limb with a line and a hook can work for fishing but a fine flycasting rod and reel is a whole other story.

Agree with Knghifi. High end audio prices are completely divorced from cost of manufacturing. As many here know, pricing a luxury good considerably lower than competition may actually have a negative impact as consumers often equate quality and price. While I own some expensive gear (Shindo, Koetsu) I am not fooling myself into believing their is a relation between material cost and price. What I do believe is that many high end goods (using Shindo and Koetsu as example again) are labor intensive and made in relatively small quantities. They will charge what they can for it. That's how some phono cartridges can be priced at $20K and some Interconnects for $5K. Audio is strange because there is no objective and universal criteria for designating quality. Some consumers will actually feel better paying more. That is why there is often so much animosity when someone disses someone elses equipment. It becomes a personal affront.

people who buy $20k line stages can typically go to live music when they choose. it's more a matter of how their allocate time. some might enjoy bringing the best possible reproduction to somewhere they can enjoy it on their terms whenever they choose.

personally i'm in a high stress job 6 days/55 hours a week. i'm around lots of people all day. for me; i want to escape into my own space and immerse myself in music. i'd rather watch my sports in HD mostly than attend games too (even though i typically have tickets).

as far as why expensive line stages cost so much.....it's somewhat 'all of the above'. if you examine the build of this piece of gear, it's clear the casework and all the very heavy anodized aluminum is quite expensive. and the workmanship level is extrordinary. some of that is a matter of performance, some is aesthetics. both are required on top level gear. nothing on this is 'off the shelf'. i know that Herve Delatraz spent literally years working on this product and came up with his own unique solutions to the challenges of building the ultimate preamp. he designed and built his own transparent attenuator solution.

it's not cheap to build things in Switzerland, but there is access to talented people that are world class precision builders. and when you are building dozens of something, maybe one hundred or so of something, there are very few economies of scale. so it's not efficient.

a few years ago i heard a Rowland class 'D' amplifier. it sounded pretty good. since it was very small, i considered using it for the rear channels of a multichannel setup i was putting in my room. then i found out it used an off-the-shelf ICE module. the Rowland cost $7000 a pair retail. i was able to find a Chinese built amp with the same circuit for $1800.

was the Rowland worth $7000? it's performance was in the neighborhood of other $7000 solid state amplifiers. but with off-the-shelf circuits it turns out that it's value did not hold up. and i agree that using good inexpensive parts sensibly put together can make a very compentent preamp.

before i got the darTZeel i had a passive balanced Placette RVC and custom switchbox. total investment $1200 for the RVC and $1500 for the switchbox. it looked very modest and unassuming in my expensive system. but i was not concerned about that. it had bettered my $15,000 Mark Levinson #32 preamp. i used it for 5 years and compared it to numerous expensive preamps. they all added crud to the musical message in one way or another.

then the darTZeel came along and was better at everything than the passive Placette. so i was not hung up on finding a 'bling, bling' preamp. performance was and is everything.

try to find a modestly priced preamp that can go head to head with the best over $20k preamps. have all the flexibility needed, be well built, have a remote, do everything. the darTZeel even has it's own 50 ohm BNC interconnect scheme which outperforms conventional interconnects. it has 2 separate phono stages.

it's not cheap, and i would not call anything swiss built a bargain. but it delivers value for the investment if one happens to desire the performance it can deliver.