Tubes vs Solid State

Bifwynne,

Got a pair of Zeros that I need to get around to selling. slap @gmail onto my username and shoot me an e-mail if interested.

What kind of amp you will use should be always seen with the connected
amplifier. You will find a lot of high powered Tube amps which are able to drive
insensitive loads, but they will never get the magic you can get with high
sensitive speakers (in a way this can be said for Transistor amps, too).
Unfortunately it is not so easy to find such speakers because the quality &
design of the X-over is mandatory (Some owners think that - for example -
95dB Wilson speakers are perfect with 18/30W Tube amps, it is a mistake, but
what you don't know you won't hear...). Atma-Sphere will have a good selection
of Speakers which work with their Amps. I would recommend to ask Ralph for a
Recommendation (because his amps are sounding right).
Some say, the magic is in the first Watt .... well, it is not that wrong. I listened to
tube amps matched with high sensitive speakers, they showed a Performance I
never heard with Transistor amps.
Btw. the Ref 600 have no "Tube" Sound, they are pretty straight, but for those
B&W speakers for home theatre the Levinson will do.

Syntax,
Your Wilson example is a good one. Higher load impedance seems more important and beneficial than just looking at a speaker`s sensitivity. It certainly seems the higher the speaker`s ohm-load, the better tube amps(in particular) will sound. Atmasphere`s explanation makes much sense. The sound does become more alive, dynamic and natural.
Regards,

Currently I have arc ref 250 driving my 802. The arc is replacing a mc302, that I liked, but the ref 250 is way better. I did a comparison between the ref250 and the mc2301, with the arc ref phono 2 and ref5. The all arc system was better, but both amps were able to drive the speakers wonderfully. There were power enough to fill my 36 sq m room. Actually, and don't ask me why, I need less 'watts' with the ref 250 ( to perceive the same volume level) than with the mc302.

1) I have heard tube amps that sound harsher than SS amps, vice versa, quite alike, and then of course quite different. I feel the further up in the bucks one goes, the more and more amps begin sounding more alike than they do different. It's almost as if the "hi-fi" world treats Tubes/SS just like they do digital/vinyl...

2) I have noticed that amps, regardless of what they are, can either dig into the speaker well, or they just fail to do so. Even tube amps with say, 90 watts a side vs. my 30 watts a side amps can sound inferior not just sound quality wise but POWER wise...that 90 watt $5K retail tube amp just cannot dig into my speakers like the 30 watter can...same with SS amps...5K-20K SS amps can have just as much trouble, but, the ones that are capable, absolutely flatten my tube amps with respect to breaking open the speaker:)). No getting around that one:)! However, just because they are breaking open the speaker more, does not mean the "quality" is as good. So you are then faced with, am I ok with the power levels I can achieve with the much superior quality OR do I really need the much louder levels with a sacrifice of the quality?

3) I am in the camp that a reference level line stage, a very pure sounding one, can actually do wonders for SS amps...sure, I still find issues with these SS amps vs. my reference tube amps...BUT...those issues are a LOT more subtle and even capable of the compromise. In other words, I can easily live with an SS amp with lesser sound quality (so long as the SS is close enough sound wise) because my preamp gives such a fantastic signal/resolution for that amplifier to enjoy. Some will say the tube magic in a pre ahead of an SS amp is the way to go, and this is indeed a very basic/simple way to go...but my preamp (it's a preamp+dac tied into one unit) has such a clean sound in spite it is a transistor based linestage, that I do not find any point in using a tubed device. I have a tubed pre-dac as well and yes, it adds some flavor, but it's so similar sounding due to the designer's very similar circuitry/design tastes that I don't consider it to be any different in terms of "helping" that SS amp sound more like tubes or whatever. Anyways, point here is that preamp can truly "click" onto a well done SS amp and make all the difference in the world in terms of sacrificing that love for your beloved tube amp, but gaining in that ultimate breaking loose of the speakers.

There's never an easy answer in all of this, but I rank things like this:

Preamp (in my case, pre-dac) and then a "good" SS amp or a "good" tube amp (either/or dependent on your speaker's efficiency or even how loud you need to hear the music).

Lastly, and something I did not discuss is impedance matching..the very best impedance matched system is going to "always" have a head start..matching the system impedance/gain structure goes a long way to get as pure of a signal as tightly locked together as is possible.

Hope this helps others in spite it's a year old thread:))!