Amp design logic

Stanwal, my friend was planning to do the same with amplifier he designed. Unfortunately this amplifier had tendency to oscillate in certain setups. I told him that it would be financial suicide if his amp will start damaging customers' speakers. He couldn't afford to buy many common speakers or spend a lot of time testing. Fortunately he gave up this idea. It is very difficult and costly to start such business and get any recognition.

Thanks for all the enlightenment everyone. I was really hoping for a discussion of the components in a $1000 amp vs those in a $50,000 amp, and how much they, vs the designer's intellectual property, contribute to the quality (and cost) difference. In other words, can I take a standard amp design, use the best available parts, and get the sound of the $50K amp. If I can't even get close, the sound quality must come from the circuit design.

But I see the way I asked it, isn't exactly like that.

So, besides proprietary circuit and transformer designs, how much of the quality difference between $1000 and $50000 amps can be made up by putting the very best components in?

All the other discussion is pretty enlightening too, thanks.

Jim

Can I take a VW Beetle and use superior parts and get a Bugatti Veyron? Because, if it's that easy, I think I'll do it! :)

Here are the questions...

1. Between a 1K amp and a 50K amp, what accounts for the additional cost to the MANUFACTURER?

2. Between a 1K amp and a 50K amp, what accounts for the additional cost to the CONSUMER?

3. What is more important to the sound quality of an amp: its DESIGN or its IMPLEMENTATION (i.e. internal components)?

Here are my suspicions...

1. It depends on the amp.
2. It depends on the amp.
3. It depends on the amp.

RE: 1. Every manufacturer has costs, but not every manufacturer has the same distribution of costs. To state the obvious, there is considerable variation from company to company in the number of employees, the extent of marketing, the R&D man hours for any particular model, part costs, the costs associated with a particular country (labor, building, shipping from factory to market, monetary exchange rates, etc.). My suspicion is that there is significant similarity in the distribution of costs among manufacturers of $1K amps, but considerably less similarity in the distribution of costs among manufacturers of $50K amps.

RE: 2. Cost to consumer = answer to #1 + profit. With respect to profit, again I believe that there is considerably more similarity among manufacturers of $1K amps than manufacturers of $50K amps.

A consequence of #1 and #2 seems to be that there is considerably more variation in the PRICE/VALUE ratio for $50K amps than for $1K amps, which seems consistent with audiophiles' experiences.

RE: 3. There are several people on this thread who have far more informed opinions than I do, but from what I can tell, the relative importance of design vs. implementation (i.e. internal components) to sound quality varies from amp to amp, and probably from amp type to type. And I suspect that the relative importance of design vs. implementation varies among sections/stages OF THE AMP ITSELF.

I also suspect that the attribution of sound quality to design vs. implementation is highly speculative, except for manufacturers who have personally built many similar versions of the same amp over a number of years (e.g., Nelson Pass, Ralph Karsten), and so are in a position to have heard (a) similar designs with varying implementations, and (b) varying designs with similar implementations.

And finally, there is a level of analysis at which the distinction between design and implementation breaks down, but that is a bit of a philosophical quagmire.

Bryon

04-23-12: River251
I was really hoping for a discussion of the components in a $1000 amp vs those in a $50,000 amp, and how much they, vs the designer's intellectual property, contribute to the quality (and cost) difference. In other words, can I take a standard amp design, use the best available parts, and get the sound of the $50K amp. If I can't even get close, the sound quality must come from the circuit design.

"Best" in this context would have to refer to using the same kinds of parts, but in versions that have tighter tolerances and/or more idealized behavior. My expectation is that Doug's answer is correct -- you can't make a VW into a Veyron by using upgraded versions of the same kinds of parts. You have to use different kinds of parts, that are not direct substitutes. That in turn will necessitate differences in circuit design, mechanical design, thermal management, and overall architecture.

Also, I would point out that "better" parts, however that may be defined, will not necessarily perform better if arbitrarily substituted into a given design, and may in fact perform worse, depending on how they interact with the surrounding circuit. For example, substituting a faster transistor or integrated circuit for a slower one can result in all kinds of problems, depending on the function the device performs. In digital circuitry that would include electrical noise problems such as signal crosstalk and "ground bounce," and increased sensitivity to impedance mismatches. In analog circuitry it would include possible increases in rfi susceptibility, intermodulation distortion, frequency response peaking, ultrasonic ringing, or even potentially damaging oscillations.

And I agree with everything in Bryon's characteristically well thought out post.

Regards,
-- Al