Tube guy gets a B&K: tubes vs solid state


You folks probably already know all this, but maybe these observations will be helpful for some newbie... (tubey newbie?).

I've been looking to understand how to improve the sound of my tube system and decided to try a SS amp as a point of reference, and potentially as a permanent switch. Thanks to many here, the desirable choice seemed to be a McCormack DNA. But being unsure I decided to take a cheaper approach and bought a B&K ST-140 ($202 on ebay + $27 shipping), version 2, toroidal transformer. It is like new. After swapping back and forth with my Marantz 8B I have the following observations. Rest of system is stock CJ PV-5, ProAc One SCs, ordinary car audio speaker cable (next upgrade), all Kimber PBJ interconnects.

The issues I have with my system are a desire for tighter bass, more openness, less of a congested presentation. I got my system in 95 or so, and did some comparisons to SS then, but sometimes you have to relearn old lessons.

1) I am amazed at how pretty and smooth a sound the B&K has. It is a "lighter" sound, more even and polite or reserved, and the various instruments don't seem to be congesting together. For a $200, 20 year old amp, it is quite amazing.

2) The sound of tubes is different from the sound of solid state. It's difficult to overstate the significance of this. The tube sound is palpable and dimensional. I knew this before, and these have to be the most commonly used terms but it's true. But it's a bit stunning to hear it again.

3) I would never be happy with solid state because no matter how pretty, it does not have this tangible substance, palbability, or dimensionality. It is key to enjoyment of the sound. It is sonic sculpture versus sonic painting.

4) I expected the bass to be deeper, larger, and tighter with the B&K. At first blush I thought it was. But after several comparisons, it is none of these. It is stronger and...tighter doesn't seem like the right word but it is as tight with the 8B. More importantly it is more real, because of the palpability, and that makes it sound more accurate or defined. On recordings with fuzzy bass, though, I think the even, clear, laid-back presentation of the B&K renders the bass with more seeming definition whereas the 8B seems to be trying to make it full and tangible but having nothing to work with, it just puts forth a kinda warm and soft bassiness.

5) I now believe the comment I read here, that a SS amp with a tube preamp will not give the dimensionality and palpability of tubes. One needs a tube amp for this.

I no longer feel I need tighter bass; I see it differently and very much like the bass I have with the 8B. I do think I could use more openness, a bit better high end (PV-5s, I'm told here, have rolled-off highs), and a less congested sound when the band gets busy, which somehow seems to be linked to the palpability or substance of the sound. It's like the thick palpability is a bit too thick and things get congested together.

I'm not sure whether changes to the amp or preamp will solve those, but the experience with the B&K suggests the next move is the preamp. I'm trying to decide whether to pick up something less romantic/lush like an ARC or VTL, or to send my PV-5 off for upgrades, or buy a newer CJ. At this point not knowing which will be the more effective it's a coin toss unless a killer deal comes along. I'm getting more reluctant though to alter the nature of my PV-5. Since getting back into hifi I have never seen one for sale.

Any suggestions or thoughts on my next move would be most welcome.

Jim
river251
Well, it seems this thread has become a free for all. Just what I like. No hi-jackers here! perfect
Hope this helps: I have the ST-140, 105w version paired with the Lightspeed.

Morrow cables
Mac Mini w/SSD using Amarra
Music files upsampled to 24/96 via Wave Editor
Centrance DAC
Burson AB-160 (to match impedence)
Monitor Audio RS-6

It sounds good to me for the low cost. Very musical, deep and clear bass, decent soundstage. Someday I will upgrade to a tube amp, but for now the ST140/Lightspeed combo seems like a low cost winner if you feed it with a good source.
Counterbiz, thanks much for your post and welcome. I am rather new myself.

I would very much like to try biamping since I just obtained the B&K. However, I'm listening to ProAc monitors with a crossover of 3000 Hz. I would be putting the important stuff on the SS amp as seen here
http://www.listenhear.co.uk/general_acoustics.htm
I'll have to wait until I get bigger speakers. That sounds like a wonderful system. I have not heard the Kappas.

Jim
4hannons, I certainly believe you, as I am quite surprised at how smooth and sweet the ST-140 sounds. I see why people say it has a very tube-like sound. It really has a very nice balance across the spectrum, and a very clean but buttery musical presentation to me. When I got it I listened to it quite a while and enjoyed it.

I have been thinking about the Lightspeed attenuator. Did you buy yours or build it? Where did you get it? Can you say a bit more about how it sounds in your system?

Thanks,
Jim
I think others have explained the sound of the Lightspeed very well in other discussions here, I'm not so good; the best way I can describe is that it is smooth and presents music truthfully. Sorry for such a poor description, but this is the best way I can say it.

I bought it used here on Agon, it's the real thing. I understand George designed and makes these in Australia and is the only person using four matched LDR's. All others using his design use only two. It's very hard to match four is what he says.

By the way, it is not the best looking thing in the world, so I ordered an empty case from Burson and fit in the LS using only some slight alterations.. Now my Lightspeed and Burson buffer match and look good together.