Pre amp for Pass Labs XA30.5 – Tube or SS


I’m updating my system from the bottom up and have settled on the Pass Labs XA30.5 for power amp. The speakers are a pair of Harbeth C7-es3. Now I’m debating between getting a tube or solid state pre amp. Below are the ones I consider:

SS pre amps - Pass XP10, Ayre K-5xeMP

Tube pre amps – Audio Research Ref 3, LS27 used, LS 26, LS-17SE; Conrad Johnson ET-3, ET-3SE used, Premier 17; Leben pre amp.

Can you share your experience in any of these pre-amp with Pass Labs power amps? Any other SS or Tube pre amp that are worth exploring? Obviously, the Audio Research Ref 3 and LS 27 command a higher price.

I’m looking for a good synergy between pre-amp and power with correct output/input impedance matching. Music I listen include: vocal – both female and male, jazz, pop, chamber, symphony, etc. I’m looking for full-body mid, solid bass and extended treble, accurate sound stage, with a focus on vocal presentation.

Any suggestions are appreciated.
r0817
Given the somewhat low input impedance of the Pass amp, specified as 20K single-ended and 30K balanced (those numbers having been essentially confirmed in John Atkinson's measurements), I took a look at the output impedances of the tube preamps listed in the OP for potential incompatibilities.

It should be kept in mind that it is very common for tube preamps to have output impedances at deep bass frequencies that are much higher than their specified output impedances (which are typically at mid-range frequencies). That low frequency rise will occur due to the output coupling capacitor that is used in most (but not all) tube preamps, and will reach a maximum (within the audible range) at 20 Hz.

Chances are that with nearly all tube preamps that will not be of significance to you with your present speakers, because of their somewhat limited deep bass extension. However, it may become a significant factor if you later change speakers, or add a sub that is driven from the preamp's outputs.

Based on my research, I would rule out the Premier 17. From JA's measurements:
The output impedance was below a lowish 800 ohms in the midband and above, but rose to 1.6k ohms at 20Hz, due to the presence of a finite-sized output coupling capacitor. The C-J should therefore be used with a power amplifier having an input impedance of at least 22k ohms if the bass is not to sound a little lean.
Also, the Leben preamp models shown at their website (RS38CX, RS-100, and RS-100U) all have specified output impedances in the vicinity of 600 ohms. I couldn't find any data indicating their 20 Hz output impedance, but the 600 ohm figure is high enough to suggest caution. If you want to consider those models, I would ask the manufacturer what their output impedance is at 20 Hz.

Also, the ARC datasheets for all of their models which are listed in the OP recommend a minimum load of 20K (although without indicating whether that applies to their unbalanced outputs, their balanced outputs, or both). So you should be ok with any of those models, but without a great deal of margin.

Regarding the statement by Mr. Pass that is quoted above, while I certainly would not question any statement he might make, when he says "the amp doesn't care about source impedance" I would point out that that does not necessarily mean that the preamp doesn't care about load impedance.

Regards,
-- Al
Again it was a direct quote form the designer (Nelson
Pass)concerning tubed pre-amp choices and their ability to
work well with his XA series of amps. I am sure he knows a
fair amount about the amps he designs and their ability to
mate up with other manufacturers tubed pre-amps.

And as far as system synergy goes the best match with a Pass
amp is a Pass Pre-Amp. I suspect any designer is going to
use his own products to optimize their synergies together.

Chuck
RO817,

When you say you have "settled" on a 30.5, do you already have it or are you going to be getting it?

In any event, I have a 30.5 and 100.5's and use CJ tube preamps with them. Perfect for me. I didn't feel that they "needed" a tube pre, just that those gave me the sound I enjoy the most.

I did audition a XP20 and liked it a bunch. I don't see how you could go wrong with the 10 especially if you have to buy blind (is "deaf" a better word? smile).

If you do go tube, the length and capacitance of the interconnects should be taken into account.

Tube or ss, I think you're going to have a great system. Good luck.
Onemug,
Did you prefer the Pass preamp over your CJ pre? There's really no guarantee the OP will like the Pass pre more simply because it is the same brand as the amplifier. Depending on the listener's taste and goals,another brand could be a better fit sonically. There's only one way to determine which is preferable and that requires listening.
Regards,
Thanks everyone for your feedbacks and suggestions. It's been very educational and informative. I'll surely consider the impedance matching when I search the pre-amp.

Meanwhile, for those who have experience listening the various pre-amps (i.e. XP10, Audio Research, CJ, Leben, etc)with Pass Labs XA30.5 or other XA.5, how would you characterize the different sound each pre-amp presents?