2. speakers
  3. 1372259149

Oh, the frustrations of the speaker search

Yesterday I had a nice opportunity to audition a couple of speakers I felt fit my potential budget and listening preferences. To clear that up:

Budget = $1,200 MAX
Music preferences = 70% prog metal/rock (Tool, Opeth, Dream Theater, Rush, etc.), the rest is a mix of female/male vocalists, movie soundtracks, jazz.

The speakers I went in to audition were Golden Ear Aon 3's and PSB Imagine B's. The shop had an Ayre CD player connected to an NAD C 356BEE integrated amp. Tracks used for demo: Alison Balsom (Trumpet Concerto in E Flat); Tool (Forty Six & Two); Porcupine Tree (The Sound of Muzak); Zac Brown Band (Free); Hans Zimmer (Man of Steel - Terraforming).

My impressions: the Aon 3 ribbon tweeters were doing some really cool things in the treble region, but I didn't like the timbre up there. The midrange was very distant, lacked PRAT, but smooth. Bass was very present (most bass I've ever heard for a bookshelf), but had a rather "bloated" sound to it. I just got the sense that the midbass was bleeding too much into the midrange, causing the lack of presence in vocals and guitars. Soundstage was very nice, but not a whole lot of instrument separation going on. Decent in the detail department. Imaging was solid.

When he switched to the PSBs, I immediately noticed a more defined, taut bass section. Not as much quantity as the Aon 3's, but much tighter and cleaner, IMO. I preferred the midrange handily with the Imagine B's, but definitely noticed the glariness of the metal dome tweeter (as compared to the ribbon in the Aon 3). Overall, I felt the Imagine B was better balanced and the midrange had much more life (positive sense) to it. Soundstage was maybe a bit less in width, same in depth. One thing that I felt was lacking, though, was instrument separation. Imaging was solid.

It was at this point that I felt truly torn. These speakers did things so differently that I really had no idea which one I'd go with (if I had to choose). What made this even more complicated, is the salesman placed a pair of Aerial Acoustics Model 5B on the stands...

Crap. I was glad and mad at the same time after listening to these speakers. Immediately apparent: INSTRUMENT SEPARATION!!! Details, clarity, resolution, timbre. All those words started flooding in my head. Truly balanced sound with a beautifully rendered midrange. Absolutely no glare or harshness to the treble (despite being aluminum dome tweeters...implementation!). Bass quantity was nice, but actually sounded muddy (was very surprised by this).

In the end, it made me realize that even a $2000+/pair speaker can have its flaws (granted still being run by a mid-grade integrated in the NAD). So now I have a reference point, however I don't know if I'd ever be able to achieve that kind of midrange/treble bliss at my price point for the genres I enjoy.

I realized, in the end, that I can live with some bass misfortune (as it can be corrected by cables, electronics, placement, room treatment, etc.)...but I really MUST have that type of midrange/treble that can be so well rendered and discernable, while also being able to ROCK.

This search just got a lot more complicated...
heywaj10
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,172 posts
 
"From my experience, hifi is about loudspeakers and their environment. The rest is pretty much incidental."

Well, the rest can certainly matter, but not as much as getting a handle on room acoustics which includes getting the right speakers set up the right way. That's 80-90% of the battle for many (but not all, especially for "audiophiles" who tend to be looking for exactly a certain sound they deem as good or best).
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
Heywaj10, one thing to keep in mind in your search for speakers is what amp will be required to make that particular speaker ROCK, as some speakers can require much more from the amplifier than others. After doing a little research, it appears that from the speakers you auditioned, the Aerial 5B is the most demanding. Reviews of this speaker do state the bass as being well controlled. With its 86db sensitivity and recommended power of 50-200 watts, it is a possibility that the NAD may have just not been up to the task when playing with some volume. The only way to know is try them on a different amp. Another speaker that you made reference to is the Tekton Lore which has a sensitivity of 98db. Knowing that every 3db is either a double or half in power depending on the direction, and if we are using amplifiers of equal high quality, the Lore’s will only need 12.5 watts to have the same capability of the 5B’s with 200 watts. Here’s the breakdown on how I determined these numbers,
86db – 200w
89db – 100w
92db – 50w
95db – 25w
98db – 12.5w
Again, assuming the same quality, it is obvious that a lower wattage amp will be less expensive than a higher one, however there will be some exceptions to this.

So, do you blow your budget on amp or speakers? Neither, as they should be considered together. I have seen too many people buy speakers, only later to realize that the remaining budget was not sufficient for an amp to get the maximum performance. Also, a very high quality amplifier can play a budget speaker to its maximum, however overall performance will be limited by the speaker.

I absolutely agree that room acoustics will greatly affect the sound, but it is still important to have a good speaker/amp match, especially since you want to ROCK.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,172 posts
 
YEs, high efficiency speakers will go louder with less power, but you also have to figure in the bass extension.

Generally, smaller speakers that go lower with less drop-off and at higher volumes to boot without breakup or distortion require a lot more power, as indicated. That's where smaller, affordable, high efficiency, high power Class D amps come in. All the bang needed for most any speaker in a small package that need not cost a fortune in that the AMP is more efficient (as opposed to the speakers).

Smaller speakers that are highly efficient in general will not extend much to the lowest frequencies, where the most power is needed and efficiency drops accordingly. This is basic physics! For a high efficiency speaker to go low, it has to be larger to be able to pressurize air effectively at low frequencies with less power.

This is basic physics and good guidelines to consider when buying.

For prog rock music, you want speakers that are relatively flat well down in to the 40 hz range or so at a minimum, more if you want to catch all of Rick Wakeman's organ, etc. So larger more efficient speakers and less powerful amp or smaller less efficient speakers and more powerful amp, those are the two ways to go. You need smaller speakers with some low end that can achieve some decent SPLs (can't be TOO small and must be well built with good quality drivers to hold up), so you will need an amp that is up to the task. NAD is not a bad choice but I would be considering a 250 w/ch class D amp like those from Wyred 4 Sound possibly for the very best results with most of the smaller speakers that will likely fit your bill.
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
Mapman, my post was merely to get Heywaj10 thinking about the amp as he shops for speakers, rather than ignoring it, purchase speakers, and then think about it.

I have not made any recommendations on speakers, but will say I am somewhat confused by yours.
In your 1st post,
For prog/metal/rock in particular if you liked the little GEs and PSBs, stretch your budget a bit perhaps, maybe consider speakers with larger drivers and or cabinets and maybe even a tad more efficient where possible. Little speakers will struggle to deliver the power and impact that ones typically wants with that kind of music at reasonably high volume levels.

I've heard both the PSBs and the GEs and I think you summarize them quite nicely! I think the Aeon 3's in particular to be a very good value for a speaker that size and price. The polite top end of the Aeons could help make for longer listening sessions without fatigue with that kind of music. For their size and price, hard to beat. But bigger may well be better in this case, if you work to find something bigger that can fit in your budget range. More efficient may be nice also, again, depending on what amp will be used and room size/acoustics.
Seem to be recommending larger more efficient speakers, and I do agree they typically deliver more power, impact, and dynamic range at higher volume levels.
Then in your last post,
For prog rock music, you want speakers that are relatively flat well down in to the 40 hz range or so at a minimum, more if you want to catch all of Rick Wakeman's organ, etc. So larger more efficient speakers and less powerful amp or smaller less efficient speakers and more powerful amp, those are the two ways to go. You need smaller speakers with some low end that can achieve some decent SPLs (can't be TOO small and must be well built with good quality drivers to hold up), so you will need an amp that is up to the task. NAD is not a bad choice but I would be considering a 250 w/ch class D amp like those from Wyred 4 Sound possibly for the very best results with most of the smaller speakers that will likely fit your bill.
This post sounds like you are recommending smaller speakers with a class D amp that is twice the budget that Heywaj10 has stated for an amplifier.

Given the maximum budget of $2200 for amp and speakers, and being able to ROCK, it is probably best to stay away from speakers with the lowest sensitivity.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,172 posts
 
Tls, there are many ways to go within the general guidelines. The devil is always in the details. I was recommending OHM Ls specifically at first which use a larger 8" driver and are moderately efficient and can be had refurbed for half the cost of other speakers of interest because I think those are particularly good for the money for that kind of music in particular (I have a pair and have heard them on a good modern amp and system which makes a big difference over the typical Japanese receiver or integrated these used to be run off back then) and most probably do not realize those might even be an option these days. They sold for $500 a pair in 1978 and can be had for similar cost still today but with an updated design and modern drivers.
More to discover