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Oh, the frustrations of the speaker search

Yesterday I had a nice opportunity to audition a couple of speakers I felt fit my potential budget and listening preferences. To clear that up:

Budget = $1,200 MAX
Music preferences = 70% prog metal/rock (Tool, Opeth, Dream Theater, Rush, etc.), the rest is a mix of female/male vocalists, movie soundtracks, jazz.

The speakers I went in to audition were Golden Ear Aon 3's and PSB Imagine B's. The shop had an Ayre CD player connected to an NAD C 356BEE integrated amp. Tracks used for demo: Alison Balsom (Trumpet Concerto in E Flat); Tool (Forty Six & Two); Porcupine Tree (The Sound of Muzak); Zac Brown Band (Free); Hans Zimmer (Man of Steel - Terraforming).

My impressions: the Aon 3 ribbon tweeters were doing some really cool things in the treble region, but I didn't like the timbre up there. The midrange was very distant, lacked PRAT, but smooth. Bass was very present (most bass I've ever heard for a bookshelf), but had a rather "bloated" sound to it. I just got the sense that the midbass was bleeding too much into the midrange, causing the lack of presence in vocals and guitars. Soundstage was very nice, but not a whole lot of instrument separation going on. Decent in the detail department. Imaging was solid.

When he switched to the PSBs, I immediately noticed a more defined, taut bass section. Not as much quantity as the Aon 3's, but much tighter and cleaner, IMO. I preferred the midrange handily with the Imagine B's, but definitely noticed the glariness of the metal dome tweeter (as compared to the ribbon in the Aon 3). Overall, I felt the Imagine B was better balanced and the midrange had much more life (positive sense) to it. Soundstage was maybe a bit less in width, same in depth. One thing that I felt was lacking, though, was instrument separation. Imaging was solid.

It was at this point that I felt truly torn. These speakers did things so differently that I really had no idea which one I'd go with (if I had to choose). What made this even more complicated, is the salesman placed a pair of Aerial Acoustics Model 5B on the stands...

Crap. I was glad and mad at the same time after listening to these speakers. Immediately apparent: INSTRUMENT SEPARATION!!! Details, clarity, resolution, timbre. All those words started flooding in my head. Truly balanced sound with a beautifully rendered midrange. Absolutely no glare or harshness to the treble (despite being aluminum dome tweeters...implementation!). Bass quantity was nice, but actually sounded muddy (was very surprised by this).

In the end, it made me realize that even a $2000+/pair speaker can have its flaws (granted still being run by a mid-grade integrated in the NAD). So now I have a reference point, however I don't know if I'd ever be able to achieve that kind of midrange/treble bliss at my price point for the genres I enjoy.

I realized, in the end, that I can live with some bass misfortune (as it can be corrected by cables, electronics, placement, room treatment, etc.)...but I really MUST have that type of midrange/treble that can be so well rendered and discernable, while also being able to ROCK.

This search just got a lot more complicated...
heywaj10
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
Mapman, my post was merely to get Heywaj10 thinking about the amp as he shops for speakers, rather than ignoring it, purchase speakers, and then think about it.

I have not made any recommendations on speakers, but will say I am somewhat confused by yours.
In your 1st post,
For prog/metal/rock in particular if you liked the little GEs and PSBs, stretch your budget a bit perhaps, maybe consider speakers with larger drivers and or cabinets and maybe even a tad more efficient where possible. Little speakers will struggle to deliver the power and impact that ones typically wants with that kind of music at reasonably high volume levels.

I've heard both the PSBs and the GEs and I think you summarize them quite nicely! I think the Aeon 3's in particular to be a very good value for a speaker that size and price. The polite top end of the Aeons could help make for longer listening sessions without fatigue with that kind of music. For their size and price, hard to beat. But bigger may well be better in this case, if you work to find something bigger that can fit in your budget range. More efficient may be nice also, again, depending on what amp will be used and room size/acoustics.
Seem to be recommending larger more efficient speakers, and I do agree they typically deliver more power, impact, and dynamic range at higher volume levels.
Then in your last post,
For prog rock music, you want speakers that are relatively flat well down in to the 40 hz range or so at a minimum, more if you want to catch all of Rick Wakeman's organ, etc. So larger more efficient speakers and less powerful amp or smaller less efficient speakers and more powerful amp, those are the two ways to go. You need smaller speakers with some low end that can achieve some decent SPLs (can't be TOO small and must be well built with good quality drivers to hold up), so you will need an amp that is up to the task. NAD is not a bad choice but I would be considering a 250 w/ch class D amp like those from Wyred 4 Sound possibly for the very best results with most of the smaller speakers that will likely fit your bill.
This post sounds like you are recommending smaller speakers with a class D amp that is twice the budget that Heywaj10 has stated for an amplifier.

Given the maximum budget of $2200 for amp and speakers, and being able to ROCK, it is probably best to stay away from speakers with the lowest sensitivity.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,172 posts
 
Tls, there are many ways to go within the general guidelines. The devil is always in the details. I was recommending OHM Ls specifically at first which use a larger 8" driver and are moderately efficient and can be had refurbed for half the cost of other speakers of interest because I think those are particularly good for the money for that kind of music in particular (I have a pair and have heard them on a good modern amp and system which makes a big difference over the typical Japanese receiver or integrated these used to be run off back then) and most probably do not realize those might even be an option these days. They sold for $500 a pair in 1978 and can be had for similar cost still today but with an updated design and modern drivers.
tonyangel
309 posts
 
I do not agree that spending most of the budget on a good amp is the best way to go. I do agree that the differences among amps are marginal, when compared to the differences among speakers.

The first step is to get a speaker that has the characteristics that you are looking for. You should also consider that the room that you are talking about isn't big and it isn't going to be hard to fill it with music.

Personally, I'd be looking for a good pair of stand mounters. Generally speaking, a pair of $1200 stand mounters are going to be better built than a pair of $1200 floor standers. If bass is what you're worried about, then think about getting a decent sub woofer. In a smallish room, a little REL T3 would do fine.

The amp can come as an after thought. There are many good deals to be had on used amps for under $500 or so. What comes most immediately to mind are the Aragon 2004 and ATI 1502. I've also seen many other brands for sale here on Audiogon.

I believe that the speakers have more of an impact on the overall sound of the system than the amp does. If you have crap speakers, putting a $5K amp on them isn't going to make them sound good. You can't polish a turd.

On the other hand, good speakers will usually sound good, even with mid fi amplification.
heywaj10 OP
17 posts
 
Hey guys,

After some solid thought process going into all this, I think I'm starting to come through the clouds. Re-evaluating everything, I have a solid plan (which will obviously take some time to play out).

Step 1: Save for speakers, audition, audition, audition. Budget will up to $2,000/pair.

Step 2: Buy a receiver/amp that will suffice to begin with (even something from Craigslist locally for ~$200). Utilize my Bifrost from the headphone rig as my source. Sell off other items of the headphone rig to help pay for the speakers.

Step 3: Save for an integrated amp: I really have my eyes set on the likes of a Wyred 4 Sound STI-500.

Step 4: Save up for and upgrade the dac to a high*er end unit (the likes of Wyred 4 Sound Dac-2, or even Schiit Statement).

Step 5: Save up for a sub. Something like an SVS12 sealed.

With proper planning and budgeting, I imagine I could assemble such a system within a year or so (from the initial starting point). Not a bad deal. Obviously this is kicking my budget way up. However, I have a hard time with the fear of purchasing something sooner, of lesser quality, and having severe buyers remorse quickly.

The bear in all of this is speakers, which actually makes me wonder if I should swap steps 1 and 3, and skip #2 entirely. I think I truly need to first determine what "sound signature" I like with my music: forward with "pop" (i.e. bookshelf monitors) or setback with "openness" (i.e. planars, omnis). Oye.
sqlsavior
46 posts
 
If you have the room to place your speakers a good 4 feet or more in front of the wall behind them, you should go for the Magneplanar MMGs free in-home, satisfaction guaranteed trial.

I know you are suspicious about the likelyhood of satisfaction from at-home trials in general, but you should still consider an exception for these speakers because:

1. They are renowned for their spaciousness and imaging qualities.
2. They are renowned for being among the very best budget speakers available, providing "a taste of the high-end" and performing far, far above their $650/pair price.
3. They really do beat the living daylights out of similarly priced (and many higher priced) box speakers.
4. They are unquestionably resolving enough to evaluate upstream components critically.
5. They rock!

Besides the need for space behind them, they also have a very small sweet-spot when aligned correctly - i.e. pointed directly at your head. If you can live with those two requirements, you can live with these speakers, until you have already spent $4-5000 upstream, and have a similar amount to replace them with! ;-)
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