After market Motor + Belt drive for Verdier

Lewm, the reports that I have from people who have used Teres motors is they all prefer the belt drive motors to their rim drive verus motor. Supposedly it takes it too much in the direction of "raw" sound.

Maril555, you are right that quite a few people have considered Teres motor for Verdier but all of them use the Platine Verdier which has a lot of clearance between the platter and the plinth so it can accomodate the strobe light but mine is the Nouvelle Verdier, it doesnt have as much gap between the platter and plinth to accomodate the strobe light. So I am looking for a solution which doesnt need this mechanism.

Ct0517,
1. I just cut a silk thread long enough to cover a round around the motor and platter. The motor is very close to the plinth. I then join it with a knot that is suggested in the Verdier website. The tension of the thread is just about enough to keep the platter rotating at a constant speed, so it is not very tight.

2. I have (on the recommendation of a friend) upgraded the motor to a Maxon motor (swiss make) and a battery power. I dont know what I exactly gained because this mod took quite some time. However I do notice that this high torque maxon motor is a lot more noisy than the original Premotec motor.

3. I noticed that when I turn off the motor with the thread on, it takes about 7.5 revolutions to come to a complete halt.

Just in case you do not know, the design of the Nouvelle Verdier is such that there is a continuous friction on the platter. Verdier in his website says that to control a platter's behaviour there should be some "known" friction that is continuously applied and that is the principle behind Nouvelle. So, its platter doesnt very freely.

Junk981, I tried contacting Galibier and Redpoint to buy their motor but I did not get any reply from them. Can you please explain the overall benefits of the Redpoint motor and if possible where I could buy it from ?

Hi Pani - that is great info thanks.

Just in case you do not know, the design of the Nouvelle Verdier is such that there is a continuous friction on the platter. Verdier in his website says that to control a platter's behaviour there should be some "known" friction that is continuously applied and that is the principle behind Nouvelle. So, its platter doesnt very freely.

Exactly. I like to think of Verdier Platter Systems as having brains.

I noticed that when I turn off the motor with the thread on, it takes about 7.5 revolutions to come to a complete halt.

If you actually cut the thread with scissors I am willing to bet it stops in much less than 7.5 revolutions as it is the same friction principle as the magnetically levitated Platine but using oil instead.

So I am looking for a solution which doesnt need this mechanism.

Well I think that there is a way. But there is no free lunch ticket here. It requires some effort and patience. Not for the plug and play audiophile.

Here are some personal impressions with my Verdier.

On my Platine Granito - power off the motor with the thread attached to the pulley and the platter system continues to spin along with the idle pulley for about 30 seconds before a dead stop. Similar to yours Pani. If this is repeated the time does not change. Its pretty precise. However cut the thread instead and the platter rotates to a stop much quicker. This tells me that the platter system has braking(friction) as the Verdier manual indicates. The Verdier TT system have inertia and braking built into their design. The motor and platter system are a marriage. Cut the cord (thread) kill the marriage.

Here is a turntable test to try for any turntable that is not DD. Unfortunately when I try this test with my SP10MKII the circuit dies and can’t be reset.

While your music is playing with a difficult passage, and you are sitting in your favourite chair – have a friend shut the motor off for a ½ second, then 1 second, longer ? Have them do this in a repeated manner off and on. Is any music (stability) pitch loss detectable? How long can your friend leave the motor off, before “YOU” are able to actually “HEAR” a pitch change (slowdown). Try it with other family members. See who is the most sensitive to it.

This test IMO will tell you how much dependence and “load” the Platter system (platter/spindle/bearing) puts on your actual motor/controller.

With my Jean Nantais TT the pitch loss is immediate no question. All my previous VPI tables (HWMKIII, MKIV modified, and TNT Modified, were also immediate with the belts or thread engaged.

With the Verdier Platine I have learned – I know I have set up the thread well, when I can shut the motor off and on repeatedly and no pitch change can be heard right away. This also tells me that the platter system / motor & controller design puts very little load on the motor itself, hence the design of the Verdier motor. This is my personal thread test.

I may one day put on an after market motor. One of reasons I bought this TT was because everything is exposed for easy upgrading. A tweakers delight. In fact I kept my VPI SDS controller after I sold the VPI TNT for this very reason; in case I rigged up some AC motor in the future. So far I haven’t been tempted.

I would be very curious to know what happens with this power off test, when performed with the aftermarket motors on the Verdier. Do any Teres, Redpoint or other motor owners want to volunteer some data here for the good of all Verdier owners ?

If any of these motors are able to achieve what I, or anyone else with a little patience can do with the stock Verdier motor and some thread I would consider them. Otherwise I feel personally, how much better can a TT get, then when you can turn its motor off and on and it doesn’t miss a beat – all at the same time introducing hardly any motor noise, and no physical bearing required.

BTW – I have inserted the Teflon washers in my stock motor. I did this early on in ownership so can’t really say how big of an impact it was. But it does make the mount that the motor pulley attaches to more rigid.

I am currently using Gutermann S303 silk thread – cost $3 at Fabricland for 100 metres. If you are a high end audiophile that is too embarrassed to walk into a Fabricland store, get your wife to do it. But be careful when she asks you what color you want. I like white because as it goes through the pulley it gets colored over time and gives me some idea how long its been on there.

I hope you guys are cleaning the pulley before putting on new thread ?

Then there is the topic of “thread burn in” after you change the thread ? You may or may not believe in audio cables needing burn in. Well thread requires a burn in period -imo.

Just some food for thought.

Cheers

Ct0517, I am also going to try different thread varieties other than Silk, e.g dental floss, fishing line etc.

I can imagine the Verdier playing fine even when I turn on and off the motor system rapid enough. However, in case you havent tried, the motor does react to power cords. Different power cords to the motor/controller resulted in different sonics (though not very drastic but still significant enough to bother). Which tells me that even though the platter is quite free from the motor, there is still a relationship between them and better motor results in better sound, even though the same silk thread is used.

In fact one cheap and simple way for you to experiment would be to use a simple cassette tape reel to drive the platter. Any old cassette that you might have would do the job. Just try it and tell us what you hear.

Hi Pani

Ct0517, I am also going to try different
thread varieties other than Silk, e.g dental floss, fishing
line etc.

We know manufacturers want to sell product. The best way to
sell product is to show that product in a nice way. For a TT
it is on top of a regular size TT rack taking up little
space. My Platine setup uses four feet in width. The music
to me becomes like a sling shot when the thread is set up in
this fashion. So please experiment not only with different
threads but distances - pulley to spindle.

From what I understand to this point of owning my Platine;
using tape drive will provide for more inertia and reduced
braking effect? Do you or anyone else disagree with this ?
This would also mean having to change out the motor which
was not designed for this purpose. Really the right person
to ask is Mr. Verdier who is very good at answering emails
about his table.

My cassette tapes are long gone Pani but if I manage to
locate one it is easy enough to try as you say. Please tell
me what u used to join the ends?

I also believe that based on owning this Verdier La Platine
TT which I feel is a kind of privilege every time I use it;
that other Verdier owners prefer to listen to music rather
than post on chat forums. Hence the lack of posts. They
are a content lot. I hope you get more opinions on this
thread as I am always eager to learn and will provide input
where I can. Cheers