After market Motor + Belt drive for Verdier

I have been looking to upgrade my TT motor and belt drive for some time now. I use a Nouvelle Verdier and its only sore point is its motor and silk thread drive. It is not bad, it gets the job done. The sound is neat and in general non-offensive. However, when I used a 0.25 inch magnetic tape (reel to reel) to drive the platter the overall sound became more dynamic, voices sounded younger, instruments sounded happier. It was as if the pitch of all the instruments became more realistic. But then I also heard more of the irregularities of the motor rotation, the timing of instruments messed up a little. The background was no more as clean as the thread drive.

This told me two things:
1. Silk thread is good but it affects music in a way that makes the performance a bit sleepy.

2. The stock motor is not good enough to accommodate a tighter coupling with the platter.

So, I am now looking for after market motor and belt drive solution. I looked at Teres motor but for that to work they require a sensor to be placed under the platter but my TT doesnt have enough gap between the platter and plinth to place the sensor. I am looking for some viable suggestions here.

A friend of mine suggested me to consider a flywheel between the motor and the platter which will absorb the motor irregularities. I dont know if it is worth a try because I see many good TTs do not have a flywheel, that means a good motor is all I need I guess but I am open to the flywheel idea also.
I wonder if anyone has mated the Verus rim drive motor or the VPI one to a Verdier. That nice thick platter of the Verdier would seem to permit use of either one. I am not an unqualified fan of those devices, on principle, but actual users seem happy, by and large. (There are a few problems that come along with them, but nothing is perfect.)
Hi Pani – interesting post. When I first got my La Platine a number of recommendations from "audiophiles" were to change the motor/controller. One of the beauties of this design is that you can use any motor /controller you want with it – or can you ?

It was interesting that some of the “go for it” recommendations, were from people not intimate with the table. Had never owned it. I have learned a lot since then.

I am not sure how similar the Novelle is to the La Platine in actual operation. So can I get some more info from you ?

1. Silk thread is good but it affects music in a way that makes the performance a bit sleepy.

What is your technique for putting on new thread and ensuring it has been applied properly and optimized ?

2. The stock motor is not good enough to accommodate a tighter coupling with the platter.

Most TT users use tables where the motor/controller dominates the platter system (platter/spindle/physical bearing). The design of my La Platine and probably ? Novelle is like an equal marriage. Its not about the motor/controller dominating the platter system.

A few more questions- sorry :^(

a)Have you optimized your existing motor in any way ?

b)When the motor/controller is on and the platter is spinning at 33 1/3 - WITHOUT - the tonearm/cartridge on a record and you shut the motor off – how many seconds does it spin for before coming to a complete stop?

c)Now repeat but instead of turning off the motor just cut the thread – count how many seconds before the platter comes to stop.

Finally just curious does the temperature / humidity level in the room vary during the year?

I know a couple of guys who have used Papst motors from Empires to run VPI turntables, etc. Doing that would require a pulley and some scheme to make the outboard addition look attractive. Also, the footprint of the turntable on the rack would be much larger. The benefit would be huge, however.
Teres motors have been used by a few Verdier owners. I spoke with Teres myself, and they confirmed, and highly recommended this option.
The only caveat, is that you will need to attach a strobe light to the plinth and a template to the bottom of the platter.
They also recommend Verus rim-drive motor even more, than any of their own belt drives.
Lewm, the reports that I have from people who have used Teres motors is they all prefer the belt drive motors to their rim drive verus motor. Supposedly it takes it too much in the direction of "raw" sound.

Maril555, you are right that quite a few people have considered Teres motor for Verdier but all of them use the Platine Verdier which has a lot of clearance between the platter and the plinth so it can accomodate the strobe light but mine is the Nouvelle Verdier, it doesnt have as much gap between the platter and plinth to accomodate the strobe light. So I am looking for a solution which doesnt need this mechanism.

1. I just cut a silk thread long enough to cover a round around the motor and platter. The motor is very close to the plinth. I then join it with a knot that is suggested in the Verdier website. The tension of the thread is just about enough to keep the platter rotating at a constant speed, so it is not very tight.

2. I have (on the recommendation of a friend) upgraded the motor to a Maxon motor (swiss make) and a battery power. I dont know what I exactly gained because this mod took quite some time. However I do notice that this high torque maxon motor is a lot more noisy than the original Premotec motor.

3. I noticed that when I turn off the motor with the thread on, it takes about 7.5 revolutions to come to a complete halt.

Just in case you do not know, the design of the Nouvelle Verdier is such that there is a continuous friction on the platter. Verdier in his website says that to control a platter's behaviour there should be some "known" friction that is continuously applied and that is the principle behind Nouvelle. So, its platter doesnt very freely.
Junk981, I tried contacting Galibier and Redpoint to buy their motor but I did not get any reply from them. Can you please explain the overall benefits of the Redpoint motor and if possible where I could buy it from ?
Hi Pani - that is great info thanks.

Just in case you do not know, the design of the Nouvelle Verdier is such that there is a continuous friction on the platter. Verdier in his website says that to control a platter's behaviour there should be some "known" friction that is continuously applied and that is the principle behind Nouvelle. So, its platter doesnt very freely.

Exactly. I like to think of Verdier Platter Systems as having brains.

I noticed that when I turn off the motor with the thread on, it takes about 7.5 revolutions to come to a complete halt.

If you actually cut the thread with scissors I am willing to bet it stops in much less than 7.5 revolutions as it is the same friction principle as the magnetically levitated Platine but using oil instead.

So I am looking for a solution which doesnt need this mechanism.

Well I think that there is a way. But there is no free lunch ticket here. It requires some effort and patience. Not for the plug and play audiophile.

Here are some personal impressions with my Verdier.

On my Platine Granito - power off the motor with the thread attached to the pulley and the platter system continues to spin along with the idle pulley for about 30 seconds before a dead stop. Similar to yours Pani. If this is repeated the time does not change. Its pretty precise. However cut the thread instead and the platter rotates to a stop much quicker. This tells me that the platter system has braking(friction) as the Verdier manual indicates. The Verdier TT system have inertia and braking built into their design. The motor and platter system are a marriage. Cut the cord (thread) kill the marriage.

Here is a turntable test to try for any turntable that is not DD. Unfortunately when I try this test with my SP10MKII the circuit dies and can’t be reset.

While your music is playing with a difficult passage, and you are sitting in your favourite chair – have a friend shut the motor off for a ½ second, then 1 second, longer ? Have them do this in a repeated manner off and on. Is any music (stability) pitch loss detectable? How long can your friend leave the motor off, before “YOU” are able to actually “HEAR” a pitch change (slowdown). Try it with other family members. See who is the most sensitive to it.

This test IMO will tell you how much dependence and “load” the Platter system (platter/spindle/bearing) puts on your actual motor/controller.

With my Jean Nantais TT the pitch loss is immediate no question. All my previous VPI tables (HWMKIII, MKIV modified, and TNT Modified, were also immediate with the belts or thread engaged.

With the Verdier Platine I have learned – I know I have set up the thread well, when I can shut the motor off and on repeatedly and no pitch change can be heard right away. This also tells me that the platter system / motor & controller design puts very little load on the motor itself, hence the design of the Verdier motor. This is my personal thread test.

I may one day put on an after market motor. One of reasons I bought this TT was because everything is exposed for easy upgrading. A tweakers delight. In fact I kept my VPI SDS controller after I sold the VPI TNT for this very reason; in case I rigged up some AC motor in the future. So far I haven’t been tempted.

I would be very curious to know what happens with this power off test, when performed with the aftermarket motors on the Verdier. Do any Teres, Redpoint or other motor owners want to volunteer some data here for the good of all Verdier owners ?

If any of these motors are able to achieve what I, or anyone else with a little patience can do with the stock Verdier motor and some thread I would consider them. Otherwise I feel personally, how much better can a TT get, then when you can turn its motor off and on and it doesn’t miss a beat – all at the same time introducing hardly any motor noise, and no physical bearing required.

BTW – I have inserted the Teflon washers in my stock motor. I did this early on in ownership so can’t really say how big of an impact it was. But it does make the mount that the motor pulley attaches to more rigid.

I am currently using Gutermann S303 silk thread – cost $3 at Fabricland for 100 metres. If you are a high end audiophile that is too embarrassed to walk into a Fabricland store, get your wife to do it. But be careful when she asks you what color you want. I like white because as it goes through the pulley it gets colored over time and gives me some idea how long its been on there.

I hope you guys are cleaning the pulley before putting on new thread ?

Then there is the topic of “thread burn in” after you change the thread ? You may or may not believe in audio cables needing burn in. Well thread requires a burn in period -imo.

Just some food for thought.

Ct0517, I am also going to try different thread varieties other than Silk, e.g dental floss, fishing line etc.

I can imagine the Verdier playing fine even when I turn on and off the motor system rapid enough. However, in case you havent tried, the motor does react to power cords. Different power cords to the motor/controller resulted in different sonics (though not very drastic but still significant enough to bother). Which tells me that even though the platter is quite free from the motor, there is still a relationship between them and better motor results in better sound, even though the same silk thread is used.

In fact one cheap and simple way for you to experiment would be to use a simple cassette tape reel to drive the platter. Any old cassette that you might have would do the job. Just try it and tell us what you hear.
Hi Pani

Ct0517, I am also going to try different
thread varieties other than Silk, e.g dental floss, fishing
line etc.

We know manufacturers want to sell product. The best way to
sell product is to show that product in a nice way. For a TT
it is on top of a regular size TT rack taking up little
space. My Platine setup uses four feet in width. The music
to me becomes like a sling shot when the thread is set up in
this fashion. So please experiment not only with different
threads but distances - pulley to spindle.

From what I understand to this point of owning my Platine;
using tape drive will provide for more inertia and reduced
braking effect? Do you or anyone else disagree with this ?
This would also mean having to change out the motor which
was not designed for this purpose. Really the right person
to ask is Mr. Verdier who is very good at answering emails
about his table.

My cassette tapes are long gone Pani but if I manage to
locate one it is easy enough to try as you say. Please tell
me what u used to join the ends?

I also believe that based on owning this Verdier La Platine
TT which I feel is a kind of privilege every time I use it;
that other Verdier owners prefer to listen to music rather
than post on chat forums. Hence the lack of posts. They
are a content lot. I hope you get more opinions on this
thread as I am always eager to learn and will provide input
where I can. Cheers
Anyone using the stock Platine Verdier DC motor should look into replacing the wall-powered supply with a battery. There is at least one retailer in the UK who sells an after-market battery for the PV.

I have a Galibier Gavia in my system which uses a large battery to supply DC voltage to the motor controller. I have compared the battery a number of times to wall-powered supplies, and the battery always sounds better.
I dug up some info I had read a while back on the Platine after I had first purchased it.
This is the site that gave me the information on the Teflon washers that I use.
The battery system is also discussed.

Teflon Washers

An interesting thread for Verdier owners.

Verdier Upgrade Kit

Ct0517, you say your TT setup is 4 feet wide, that means you have a very long thread connected between platter and motor. But the callas audio site you have mentioned above clearly says that the thread should be as short as possible to avoid speed instabilities, I am confused!!

BTW, on what platform have you placed your Verdier? I believe they react to platforms a lot. I have been trying various platforms and rack systems, and all of them make the Verdier sound different. Just wanted to know which one do you use.
What platform do u use under the Verdier
I'm just about to set mine up.
It's older Granito model
Sorry for any confusion and this long post to clear it up.
I provided those links as internet information only. I can, based on my own experience say that the Teflon washers work for me. My advice however is to take all opinions with a grain a salt, unless you know the person well and trust them and know their room/gear. I personally thought it was very interesting on that thread that there were a couple Verdier veterans with differing views on the Verdier setup. One pushed keeping the stock motor which is very good in itself for the application if setup properly (imo - more on this in a bit); and the other just went to another motor and was done with it. Can one or both be wrong ? Well I think both are right because what they did worked for them and they are happy. Nothing else matters really. Right? Its a hobby. I would encourage you to do the experiments yourself with long and short thread, otherwise you will never know the difference yourself. The amount of tweaking this table provides is incredible.

Please understand where I am coming from as well. I will ask you - What is your personal objective in this hobby ? Whether you answer or not is up to you.

My objective. I used to chase my tail changing components. That has stopped for me for vinyl. Now when I want to know where I stand with my vinyl tweaking, I set up an LP and a 15 IPS master tape dub of which I have managed to find and buy a few - of lps I like and own. I start the record with the tape about 10-15 seconds behind the LP. I can switch between the two on the preamp instantly and hear differences in my room. So I tweak my vinyl to get as close to the tape as possible for reproduced sound in my own room – period. That is my own objective. If you were to start a post - How many use Reel to Reel as their reference source for reproduced sound? I think you will be surprised how many there are out there.

I can therefore recommend seeking out a pro “15 IPS tape deck” and have it calibrated properly. Then hunt down 2 or 3 master tapes to use as a reference. There is a learned technique in hunting tapes. It is a very revealing exercise when you compare 1) 15 IPS master tape dubs and two different TT’s using the same tonearm/cartridge on each and 2) tape and two different tonearms/same cartridge on the same table. This is where my opinion (earlier) of my Verdier with the stock motor comes from. I base everything on what I hear not measurements. The day I can no longer do this by ear – I will still listen to music - but I will pursue my other hobbies stronger.

The Verdier platform I currently use has been custom made by local Mennonite workers near the area I live in. It is a four foot slab of maple with welded steel legs that has a special shelf underneath on which hundreds of pounds of sand can be loaded onto. So it is a solid stand. As you are aware the type of rack you need will depend on whether your turntable has a suspension or not. The Verdier uses a suspension. Dealing with structure feedback can be done in a couple of ways – imo. Some choose to spend $$$$ on isolation platforms. I chose to learn how structure feedback worked and dealt with it my way. If you browse my virtual page I have provided my own findings based on my personal experiences. Look for the tag called structure feedback / spl testing. I should probably update it.
My current pulley to spindle distance is about 24 inches. The dealer I purchased the Verdier from was a veteran owner of many years and he told me he used between 20 and 25 inches. He gave me the tied threads of the various lengths he had tried that he had.

But let me say something that I really feel is important with this Verdier table based on my experience. One of the guys in that thread I linked talked about it too. We all know that wires and interconnects, etc.. affect the sound. Well the thread type and distance is at the source so its effect is multiplied and the final sound will be based on your own gear and your room. So you really need to do the experiments on your own and use what works in your own room.

If you don’t have a wide shelf – you can mount the motor on a separate stand and experiment with long thread. That will produce a different sound again than the motor being on the same stand as the TT. Remember the TT has a suspension the TT motor does not. The top magnet represents part of the platter on the Platine. Many imo - set up the thread too high. Look at dealer pictures. This is unstable. The thread is best imo set up very low on the platter and set up loose – I can flick it with my finger when a record plays. The motor set up in stock form low for leverage not on points. Have you ever tried to move a really heavy couch in your room by yourself? Is it easier pulling it from the top, middle or the bottom of it ?

The above is my current opinion so far and it may change as I live with this table.

Again sorry for the long post. Hope this clears up the confusion. Feel free to pm or ask questions on my virtual page. Have fun.
Maril555 , Pani other Verdier owners
Regarding the Verdier suspension.
In that thread I linked Tuboo discussed placing wood blocks under the plinth.
Defeating your Verdier suspension.
I encourage you to try this as it only requires three pieces of same size wood just high enough to raise the plinth to defeat the exising pneumatic suspension.
This makes the Verdier a suspension – less turntable.
You will understand how the suspension (or no suspension) affects the sound in your (rack) setup if you try this.
Look forward to your impressions if you try it.
Maril555, I am yet to find a platform that is totally satisfying. However I have tried quite a few which includes a solid steel rack, TAOC isolation platform with TAOC spikes, Hutter Rack and currently using a Naim Fraimlite with a MDF platform on top. This MDF platform rests on a Yamamoto PB-4-2 spike systems on the Fraimlite. This is playing well. The Yamamoto spike system is very good compared to typical spikes and spike bases sold by audiophile companies. The problem around Verdier is it doesnt like a very hard surface (granite, marble etc) nor something too soft. Some Verdier users told me that a solid wood platform made of Ebony is supposedly superb, here is an example:
ct0517, You are quite fortunate to be able to do reel to reel. Someday possibly I will also try to get one.

I agree with one of your suggestions that when the thread is driving the bottom half of the platter the sonics are better. I could not point a finger at why it so happens, but now that you have mentioned, I can see a logical reasoning behind it. Here is a setup which I like just by listening through the Video. This guy is a Verdier dealer and has optimized the Verdier at his shop. He uses a Teres motor with 0.5 inch Mylar tape drive:

BTW, what tonearms and cartridges have you used with the Verdier ?
I have m maple rack, that I'm going to try first. Though the size of the top shelf doesn't allow for the pulley-to-spindle distance to be more than 12"
I'm thinking about using wall-mounted shelf just for the motor, it'll be big enough to try various distances b/w TT and the motor
And I'm waiting for 10" GrahamPhantom Supreme arm delivery
My cart is Dynavector XV 1S with Ruby Soundsmith cantilever
Very good combination Maril555. Please do report back on what it sounds like.

I am planning on a Naim ARO with either Dynavector XV1s or Lyra Skala.
Hi Maril555 – Looking forward to your impressions as well.

When looking at the manual I smile when I read how Mr Verdier discusses the install options for the Platine.
It probably has something to do with the French-English translation.

Install options.

1) heavy and hard wearing furniture.
2) solid wood or steel tubes mounted on wall bearing wall.
3) Sandbox made of wood filled with sand. Lay in the board the table will rest on. :^)

How simple can it get ? Three very clear options offered up for his table.

IMO – based on my experience so far the suspension deals with structure feedback really well in option 1.

I am very interested Maril in hearing how the motor unit on the wall shelf works out.

Platines can support 8 kg center weights.

Hi Pani

My reference arm is a
modded ET 2.5 air bearing tonearm

When Mr. Verdier saw a picture of the Eminent Technology ET2.5 Tonearm he did not recognize it, but he did ask me a few questions. Its not sold in France I guess. I am currently using it with a Soundsmith Retipped Ruby Cantilever Benc Micro MC3. Will be putting my XV1 back on soon. It was rebuilt for me by Axel of Germany.

Ct0517, it is interesting that I have not yet tried any of the three options mentioned by Mr.Verdier. When I move into my own house, possibly the first thing I will do is to place the TT on a wall mount shelf. However, when Mr.Verdier talks about solid wood heavy furniture I wonder which solid wood is preferable. There is Teak, Rosewood, Maple, Ebony, so many to choose from.

By the way, your setup is very very good. The ET tonearm is highly acclaimed and so is the Granito plinth version of Platine. Have you ever listened to a later generation Platine which has a mdf plinth ? Any impressions ?
Thanks Pani – That ET2 tonearm and the Platine share 2
common dna elements. They have both passed the test of time
and both can be highly tweaked / hot-rodded. The room is the
big rock in audio. I have heard two SP10MKII’s in the same
room with different plinths but same tonearm/cartridge. Not
two Platines however. Once into different rooms its apples
and oranges.
imo - How good a table will sound is based more on who set
it up and their knowledge of the gear and room. Its a
learned process, I am still learning with both the ET2 and
Platine. Cheers
My initial question remains kind of unanswered, is there a replacement motor and belt drive system for Verdier that I can look at ?
I would like to know exact the same thing. In my investigations so far, I have found the following options:
Teres- various models, belt, or rim-drive
Red Point-
Battery PS option for stock Verdier motor by Graham Tricker
TW motor and speed controller.
Also various threads (linen, silk, floss, etc.) options for the stock Verdier motor
All of these options are fairly expensive- appr. $1000- 2500, maybe even more (with the exception of Tricker's battery option, which I don't know how much $$$)
I'm not sure about a degree of improvement, those upgrades will afford over the stock motor.
Maril555, I have tried contacting Galibier and Redpoint but never got a response from them. I dont know what the problem is. Here is another Verdier setup which uses flywheel and supposedly sounds amazing:

I don't know about Redpoint, but Thom at Galibier has been away on family business. He will return shortly.
Maril555, I don't think that Graham Tricker is making his GT Audio Verdier Battery PSU at the moment. However, if enough people are interested, I am sure that he would consider another batch. Why don't you email him on

or call him on +44 1895 833099

He usually answers the phone until abput 2200 UK time, as he talks regularly to Jeff Catalano @ Highwater Sound in NYC, who distributes his TRON amplifiers
I remember you saying, you've been using one. Could you tell how much $$$ is it approximately?
You could do it privately, of course.
I would also like to know, how it compares with the stock motor?

I bought my GT Audio Battery PSU for about £850 as a demonstrator from Graham Tricker (GT) about 7-8 years ago.

When I was last at his place collecting my TRON Voyager power amp, I mentioned that there was some interest in the Verdier PSU. If my memory serves me correctly, he said that he did not have any metalwork left for the casings. Like everything, I would imagine that if there were enough interest and firm orders, then he might consider another batch. Not sure he would do a one off. But just ask him. Graham will always try and help. Contact him by email or phone.

I have the stock motor, which is powered by the Battery PSU (connected via a lemo lead - he will need to adapt the motor housing with a lemo socket). It was much better with the battery psu. The noise floor just dropped away completely - hence it sounded more dynamic, due to the increased dynamic range available. I wouldn’t go back to the stock motor and AC.

He also made a special motor housing, machined out of solid aluminium billet. Beautiful - it also made it a bit better. But the best bang for buck was the Battery PSU.

Email me offlist if you need any more info

Thanks for the info Topoxforddoc. I wonder why pay GBP 850 for a battery PSU, isnt it okay to just hook up a high amperage deep cycle battery that can be bought from a shop for about $150 and a charger for another $50 ?

The question to answer is, is a stock Verdier motor with a silk thread drive is really good enough for a TT as good as a Verdier. It is a common observation that in the end how the platter rotates has a huge impact on the over all sound, much more than cartridges and tonearm changes. In fact it is right at the foundation of a turntable sound. Does the Verdier need/deserve a better motor drive system ? If yes then which one ?
There is also a way to convert stock Verdier motor to DC, posted on Callas website. I'm not sure that will accomplish the same improvent, as GT PSU
Motor that I have tried is a Scheu DC motor which I bought from Signature Audio when they were closing as a back up motor.
Another Brick and Motor store gone.....
No improvement in the sound and the speed stability wasn't as good as the Philips motor in the Verdier.
Test for speed was the Timeline.

Agree with CT0517 re the height of the thread drive being low on the platter gives the best results. Also the mentioned washers for the motor are a must as well.
Threads that have given me the best results are un-waxed dental floss
and silk thread.
The stock linen thread supplied by Verdier is very good but the rubber belt is not to my liking at all.

Have tried several types of materials for a base/platform for my Verdier.
Found that I am happiest with the Brazilian cherry.
Base material that I have tried are Baltic birch, Douglas Fir ply, caramelized Bamboo, Black Slate and Black South African granite and various combination of the above.

A dedicated battery option peaks my interest.
Anyone interested in getting one made as a group purchase?
That is great info Topoxforddoc and Rugyboogie. Thanks for sharing.
Am also Interested in the battery option as a next step.
Count me in for any kind of group buy that gets considered.
I think it is not just the motor but also what is used to connect the motor to the platter plays a big role. A Mylar tape or reel to reel tape goes a long way in telling what exactly the silk thread is missing on. If any of you guys happen to try that, please share your views.

Regarding battery, a friend of mine uses photovoltaic cells and claims it is the cleanest he has heard. It is cheap also. He has placed a 300 watt halogen light just above the photovoltaic cell to generate power on the fly. I wonder what is the additional benefit of using $1500 battery supply over using a simple hospital grade deep cycle batteries which costs less than $200 !!!

For the TT platform I am thinking about two options, either a acoustic revive rhb-20 solid hickory board or a Yamamoto soundcraft qb100 cherry board.
Hi Pani
Just curious how the magnetic 1/4" reel to reel tape engages on the stock motor's brass spindle. Does the tape fold into a V shape as the motor turns 33.3 rpm ?
Hi RugyBoogie,
I have tried folding the tape into the V shape, I also tried pushing the tape all the way down where there is a flat surface to just about hold the tape width. I also got another brass capstan made which has a flat groove just to accommodate the tape width. The important thing to note is the effect this tape drive has on the sound. If you read my post right at the top I have mentioned that the instruments sound "happier" and voices sound "younger" as they actually should. It is not a tone change, it is a more fundamental change, it is something to do with the pitch of the voices and instruments. If you have ever heard a master tape or even a good Nakamichi tape deck playing cassettes, there is a certain agility with which instruments springs to life, instruments have realistic weight but never sounds over weight. Something similar happens when the tape drive is connected and that is exactly what I miss with the silk thread drive. It is a fundamental thing. If you listen to music you have grown up with you will know this instantly, you will not know this on lesser known music or typically audiophile music (Diana Krall types). Verdier is a TT for life if these things are fixed, no doubt about it. Only thing is, after paying $10k for a TT, one would like to settle down and not fiddle around to get things right, that feeling some times weighs me down.
Only thing is, after paying $10k for a TT, one would like to settle down and not fiddle around to get things right, that feeling some times weighs me down/

Pani –imo - If anything a more expensive turntable makes things worse as it highlights other problems in the chain, including the platform, the tonearm, cartridge and phonostage. If you tell us your tonearm, cartridge, phonostage - maybe someone familiar with them can say how those components affect the sound.

Have you inserted the teflon washers yet ?

Of the turntables I have owned and currently own the Verdier is the most like an actual musical instrument - a tool - as far as tuning it goes and how it reacts to everything. I can't do as much with my Idler and DD except play around with different platforms.

I feel it is important to determine the type of music listener/audiophile we are. I know audiophiles that touch nothing in setup, and lets others do it. Its like their car. They just put gas in like a record here. If something goes out they need to call someone. I’m just saying.....

I have question as I am curious about something. When I play 33 1/3 records my dial on the motor is just to the left of 12 O’clock on the dial. Be interested in knowing where it is for others with the stock motor.

I know its been higher in my first setups (closer to 1 or 2 pm) because I left small blue tac dots on the casing to remind me. No where close to that now. Is this an important consideration in setup ?

Does higher on the dial make the motor more stressed ?
Cause less stability ?
Is it better to get it set up so that the dial is lower ?

Any thoughts on this from the Verdier veterans ?

Hi Ct0517,
I have not yet done the Teflon washer thing, I am not too handy with DIY and when I see wires running inside the motor housing I get nervous.

I use a Naim ARO tonearm with Miyabi Red Rose (Standard) cartridge and RCM Sensor Prelude phonostage. I listen mostly to Blues, Rock and Swing Jazz, so PRAT and tone are very important for me.

BTW, I forgot to answer your earlier question, you could stick the reel tapes with the use of Super Glue (instant glue).
I use a Naim ARO tonearm with Miyabi Red Rose (Standard) cartridge and RCM Sensor Prelude phonostage

Pani - fyi - this is just coincidence. Dover's last post on the ET2 thread. He uses a Final Audio string drive.

"The sound of the Naim Aro is quick, lucid through the mids, excellent soundstage and very musical. The downside is that I believe it has a very narrow operating window in terms of cartridge compliance and mass. The Dynavector Nova 13D sounds excellent as does a Denon 103D. The Koetsu Black sounds awful, unstable in the bottom end."

Hi Dover - if you happen to see this and can add anything?


if its the same inside like the Platine motor, the hardest thing about putting the teflon washers in is not losing the little aluminum washers that are there when you lift it out. The only wire you disconnect from what I remember is the ground. The washers cost one dollar.

Hi Pani

Thanks for clearing up the tape and capstan drive.

Agree that music on R2R master tapes is THE reference for many , I am lucky to have tapes and a couple of Studers.
As good as vinyl gets it isn't in the same league as R2R.
Had a Nakamichi 582Z, yes they were good but no match for R2R.
There is so much vinyl that we cannot get on tape therefore I/we keep tuning the Verdier.

I like what CT0517 said about cars and tuning.
Cars are build for a broad group of individuals.
Those that like cars buy better cars that have a higher potential to be tuned to an individuals taste and abilities.
Tuning the Verdier is like a high performance car.
Easy to tune and it will reveal whats in the music.

Re the power supply.
Wouldn't want to spend too much on a battery powered box, but my old ASR was battery powered and my darTZeel pre is also battery powered....... I see a pattern here.
Will explore a battery power supply and will post my thoughts. An AGM battery and a simple charger should do.

Back to the R2R.
R2R is relatively inexpensive to get started but the tapes can get costly.
Friend in Seattle invited me to a gathering that took place at his place.

Here is my post from 04 13 2009 on Mike Lavigne's system page re R2R

Take care and Viva le Verdier
Hi Ct0157, the Miyabi is a good match for the ARO. It is a proven combo actually. The ARO sounds good with Lyra and Dynavectors also. Koetsu, I dont know.

BTW, regarding the motor upgrade, Origin Live makes after market TT motors, possibly could be considered.

Where can I buy the Teflon washers from ?
Rugyboogie, thanks for your suggestions. I understand your view point and possibly I will do what it takes to make this guy sing the way I want. Some patience, some research and some funds are all that is required :)
Where can I buy the Teflon washers from ?
Any hardware store. When you have your motor lifted out (careful with the existing washers so they don’t fall out) take one of the washers to any hardware store.
Ask for Nylon washers. I can’t remember the exact size. The link is an example only.
nylon washer

I just remembered something – how are you leveling your motor ?
I bet some are levelling the motor wrong. When you replace the washers you will realize why.
The motor does not sit in its mount perfectly level.
Buy one of these or something similar.
bubble level
Place it on top of the pulley when leveling. You want the pulley level – NOT - the casing of the motor.
Hi Guys
I have two deep cycle marine batteries in storage over the winter doing nothing. If someone can point me to the proper voltage regulator to use, I will bring them out and attempt a DIY battery setup.
Ct0517, the voltage regulator is already in your PV motor controller. You will simply connect the battery in place of the wall-powered supply. Picture this---the PV motor runs on DC and the motor speed is controlled by the exact DC voltage fed to the motor. The controller is simply a voltage regulator that allows the user to change the DC voltage slightly in order to adjust the motor speed and then maintain it at a constant speed.

The controller needs to be fed an input DC voltage to function, i.e. it needs a voltage supply somewhat higher than the regulated output voltage being fed to the motor. That "raw" DC voltage can come from a wall-powered supply that includes a small transformer to reduce the AC line voltage to a lower AC voltage and a rectifier to change the AC to DC and some capacitors to smooth out the DC voltage. That is the approach in the PV---a small wall-powered DC supply that feeds the controller. However, you can easily duplicate the function of the wall-powered supply with a battery that has about about the same raw DC voltage as the wall-powered supply. The controller circuitry is not changed when you go to a battery supply.

I don't recall the exact voltages in the PV supply and motor. I actually have a Galibier Gavia which uses a similar arrangement. In my case, the motor runs on around 5vdc so that is the approximate output voltge of the Galibier controller. I use a big battery designed for jump-starting autos, and it puts out roughly 12 to 14 volts DC which is more than enough for the controller.

It's been several years since I heard a friend's PV that was rigged up so we could switch between a battery and the stock wall-powered supply, but as I recall he used a similar battery as mine.

The current drain on the battery is infinitessimal compared to its intended use with automobiles. Consequently, the battery can go long periods of time without recharging. I typically connect mine to the charger every month or two.
Ct0517, the voltage regulator is already in your PV motor controller. You will simply connect the battery in place of the wall-powered supply. Picture this---the PV motor runs on DC and the motor speed is controlled by the exact DC voltage fed to the motor. The controller is simply a voltage regulator that allows the user to change the DC voltage slightly in order to adjust the motor speed and then maintain it at a constant speed.

Salectric – thanks for the info. let me understand something. I am not an electrician.

My term voltage regulator was probably the wrong word. How about voltage converter ?

The Platine motor is a DC motor with a voltage regulator.
The AC current from the wall is 120volts.
The Platine motor is doing a voltage conversion from AC to DC ?

Adding a battery is raw DC power.

What happens with the Platines voltage converter which is expecting AC current ?

Will I not fry the converter with raw DC power from a battery or does it just bypass it ?

It sounds like your present power supply is in the same box as the controller. (It's been too long since I saw a PV for me to recall how it was laid out.) That will mean someone will have to open up the box and attach some leads that bypass the internal power supply so the battery can be connected directly to the controller/regulator circuitry. This is quite easy to do for someone who has some minimal experience in electronics.