After market Motor + Belt drive for Verdier


I have been looking to upgrade my TT motor and belt drive for some time now. I use a Nouvelle Verdier and its only sore point is its motor and silk thread drive. It is not bad, it gets the job done. The sound is neat and in general non-offensive. However, when I used a 0.25 inch magnetic tape (reel to reel) to drive the platter the overall sound became more dynamic, voices sounded younger, instruments sounded happier. It was as if the pitch of all the instruments became more realistic. But then I also heard more of the irregularities of the motor rotation, the timing of instruments messed up a little. The background was no more as clean as the thread drive.

This told me two things:
1. Silk thread is good but it affects music in a way that makes the performance a bit sleepy.

2. The stock motor is not good enough to accommodate a tighter coupling with the platter.

So, I am now looking for after market motor and belt drive solution. I looked at Teres motor but for that to work they require a sensor to be placed under the platter but my TT doesnt have enough gap between the platter and plinth to place the sensor. I am looking for some viable suggestions here.

A friend of mine suggested me to consider a flywheel between the motor and the platter which will absorb the motor irregularities. I dont know if it is worth a try because I see many good TTs do not have a flywheel, that means a good motor is all I need I guess but I am open to the flywheel idea also.
pani
Anyone using the stock Platine Verdier DC motor should look into replacing the wall-powered supply with a battery. There is at least one retailer in the UK who sells an after-market battery for the PV.

I have a Galibier Gavia in my system which uses a large battery to supply DC voltage to the motor controller. I have compared the battery a number of times to wall-powered supplies, and the battery always sounds better.
I dug up some info I had read a while back on the Platine after I had first purchased it.
This is the site that gave me the information on the Teflon washers that I use.
The battery system is also discussed.

Teflon Washers

An interesting thread for Verdier owners.

Verdier Upgrade Kit


Cheers
Ct0517, you say your TT setup is 4 feet wide, that means you have a very long thread connected between platter and motor. But the callas audio site you have mentioned above clearly says that the thread should be as short as possible to avoid speed instabilities, I am confused!!

BTW, on what platform have you placed your Verdier? I believe they react to platforms a lot. I have been trying various platforms and rack systems, and all of them make the Verdier sound different. Just wanted to know which one do you use.
Pani,
What platform do u use under the Verdier
I'm just about to set mine up.
It's older Granito model
Pani
Sorry for any confusion and this long post to clear it up.
I provided those links as internet information only. I can, based on my own experience say that the Teflon washers work for me. My advice however is to take all opinions with a grain a salt, unless you know the person well and trust them and know their room/gear. I personally thought it was very interesting on that thread that there were a couple Verdier veterans with differing views on the Verdier setup. One pushed keeping the stock motor which is very good in itself for the application if setup properly (imo - more on this in a bit); and the other just went to another motor and was done with it. Can one or both be wrong ? Well I think both are right because what they did worked for them and they are happy. Nothing else matters really. Right? Its a hobby. I would encourage you to do the experiments yourself with long and short thread, otherwise you will never know the difference yourself. The amount of tweaking this table provides is incredible.

Please understand where I am coming from as well. I will ask you - What is your personal objective in this hobby ? Whether you answer or not is up to you.

My objective. I used to chase my tail changing components. That has stopped for me for vinyl. Now when I want to know where I stand with my vinyl tweaking, I set up an LP and a 15 IPS master tape dub of which I have managed to find and buy a few - of lps I like and own. I start the record with the tape about 10-15 seconds behind the LP. I can switch between the two on the preamp instantly and hear differences in my room. So I tweak my vinyl to get as close to the tape as possible for reproduced sound in my own room – period. That is my own objective. If you were to start a post - How many use Reel to Reel as their reference source for reproduced sound? I think you will be surprised how many there are out there.

I can therefore recommend seeking out a pro “15 IPS tape deck” and have it calibrated properly. Then hunt down 2 or 3 master tapes to use as a reference. There is a learned technique in hunting tapes. It is a very revealing exercise when you compare 1) 15 IPS master tape dubs and two different TT’s using the same tonearm/cartridge on each and 2) tape and two different tonearms/same cartridge on the same table. This is where my opinion (earlier) of my Verdier with the stock motor comes from. I base everything on what I hear not measurements. The day I can no longer do this by ear – I will still listen to music - but I will pursue my other hobbies stronger.

The Verdier platform I currently use has been custom made by local Mennonite workers near the area I live in. It is a four foot slab of maple with welded steel legs that has a special shelf underneath on which hundreds of pounds of sand can be loaded onto. So it is a solid stand. As you are aware the type of rack you need will depend on whether your turntable has a suspension or not. The Verdier uses a suspension. Dealing with structure feedback can be done in a couple of ways – imo. Some choose to spend $$$$ on isolation platforms. I chose to learn how structure feedback worked and dealt with it my way. If you browse my virtual page I have provided my own findings based on my personal experiences. Look for the tag called structure feedback / spl testing. I should probably update it.
My current pulley to spindle distance is about 24 inches. The dealer I purchased the Verdier from was a veteran owner of many years and he told me he used between 20 and 25 inches. He gave me the tied threads of the various lengths he had tried that he had.

But let me say something that I really feel is important with this Verdier table based on my experience. One of the guys in that thread I linked talked about it too. We all know that wires and interconnects, etc.. affect the sound. Well the thread type and distance is at the source so its effect is multiplied and the final sound will be based on your own gear and your room. So you really need to do the experiments on your own and use what works in your own room.

If you don’t have a wide shelf – you can mount the motor on a separate stand and experiment with long thread. That will produce a different sound again than the motor being on the same stand as the TT. Remember the TT has a suspension the TT motor does not. The top magnet represents part of the platter on the Platine. Many imo - set up the thread too high. Look at dealer pictures. This is unstable. The thread is best imo set up very low on the platter and set up loose – I can flick it with my finger when a record plays. The motor set up in stock form low for leverage not on points. Have you ever tried to move a really heavy couch in your room by yourself? Is it easier pulling it from the top, middle or the bottom of it ?

The above is my current opinion so far and it may change as I live with this table.

Again sorry for the long post. Hope this clears up the confusion. Feel free to pm or ask questions on my virtual page. Have fun.
Cheers