Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

I would have to agree with Raul...

IMO... way to many audiophile people have been burned in the wrong way

Raul please continue.... I see where this is going but you have to get your point across and not look or make people think your the audio god that is perfect...nothing is perfect!

my thoughts on music ..most people don't really know what real music sounds like..this is the first problem hence we have so much BS equipment out there

Lawrence

Fidelity_Forward

Dear friends: +++++ " To accept that and to test it we have to have an UNBIASED attitude in all audio subjects/myths.... " ++++

that's what I posted and from your answers all of you are biased on what you learned through the AHEE ( Lewm, like it or not what is your audio foundation came from the AHEE and you are happy to follow it. ), so can't accept nothing that goes against it.

Gentlemans if my attitude were the same as yours I never started any audio project I started by my self and like all of you I stayed as a simple AHEE follower.

Btw, I never said ( Peterayer. ) that I'm not an AHEE member what I said is that all of us belong to the AHEE like it or not.

+++ " everyone is nuts (misinformed, whatever) except you. " ++++

I never said that either, I said " some " that's different.

++++ " WHat if you are wrong or missed something? How would you know? " ++++

I agree that no one is perfect and many times I posted exactly that: " maybe I'm wrong but..... " and till today no one took the " flag " and tell me you are wrong because:.......

you are right I can be wrong and is almost impossible not to miss something.
But time always helps to tell us if we are right or wrong and if we missed something. Through the time more than once I had to rectified on " wrong " statements that does not pass the test of time.

Every single statement/experience/discovery/ whatever I share in this and other forums is something that I test it every single day and still do it.
Many gentlemans in this forum and in this thread already made some changes in their audio believes testing and making of them some Raul " discoveries " and when that happen one, two, three, four or five times in different audio subjects/myths then is a confirmation that now if I'm wrong I'm not alone but in the other side can means that I was not wrong.

+++++ " I don't think any of my audio beliefs, correct or incorrect, were foisted upon me by some sinister cult power. My ignorance is entirely of my own making. " ++++

well now result that you don't belong to the audio community in the Earth, where do you come from? from Venus?
I don't think so, like it or not you as any one of us are a " by product of the AHEE that certainly is not a sinister cult power, not at all.

++++ " I suspect it is quite desirable to pursue low distortion, but not THD which turned out to be bs. " ++++

well that is a myth. When you lower the speakers IMD you are lowering too the THD and you can hear it if you are not deaf.

+++ " Without substantiations with data from "your research" you have no grounds to stand on. " ++++

well, that's is not exactly true. The substantations are each one of the gentlemans that some way or the other choosed to experiment withsome audio subjects I suppot and now they decided to follow it.

++++ " AHEE and "distortions" are Raul's indirect way of saying that the only truth is his truth, painfully arrived at.... " ++++

wrong absolutely wrong. Normally we are closed to any different audio subject that could modified in any way what we learned through the years because for each one of us what we learned is the " true " is the " Bible ".

I was not diffrenet from you in this regards but the difference was and is that I questioning if what I learned through the AHEE were true or misinformation because my ignorance level.

I questioning not only the AHEE but my self and each day I do that with my audio " new " discoveries and some AHEE audio subjects that are in doubt.

Everything I posted and shared in this forum is a result of that " questioning " and obviously a result of tests and first hand experiences that till today always were enriched for some of you that like it some of my discoveries.

Gentlemans, please do it a favor and don't question me but start a proccess to questioning what you learned on audio with a simple question: WHAT IF SOME CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT AUDIO INFORMATION I LEARNED IS WRONG TODAY ? What if wrong?

How do you know it's not wrong other than that futile: " I like it " ?
No one is perfect an all of us have an ignorance level that makes that we must learn every single day to improve that ignorance level. Of course that the easy path is to stay where you are to be a simple spectator/onlooker of your audio life instead an actor of it.

Till today with some of you the AHEE was and is the " designer " of your audio life not you.

Good news is that you can change easy that trend when yo decide to do it with an unbiased attitude unbiased from what you learnend questioning what you have and questioning your self.

Gentlemans, do you think that you live an enjoy a perfect audio world? a perfect audio life?

because only if you think that you will continue to question me and not your self and the AHEE.

I think that each one of us have the right to grow up in the right audio direction. To achieve that first you have to find out that road and when you have on hand never come back to that " jail ".

Sop from your point of view you are right and I'm wrong, you are perfect and I'm imperfect, you are " happy " and I'm unhappy,.... why not think the other way around just for fun. Maybe each one of you discover something interesting that could change your future audio life.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, you may have made lots of experiences when testing audio items as nearly we all did. As I learned now you are looking for a kind of retreat not buying any (in your language AHEE or distortion units) new audio gear except of used and unused MMs. I really do understand that someone switches from transistor to tube design and vice versa depending on his system and the other relevant units. In your words you left all these experimental stages and reached audiophile nirvana which we all of the AHEE community will never reach as we live in a distorted, industry & reviewer manipulated environment.
Okay got it.

On the other hand to convince audiophiles having been caught in the cage of distortion and AHEE you should describe what steps are necessary to reach your nirvana or guru level. I can follow your criticism which you constantly pursue (but so far do not share). But why not describe for me and others in positive words how your brave new audio world looks like and which (positive!) attitudes and habits are necessary for becoming a full member of this rare circle.

Pls. don't answer me what I should not (!) do rather than which actions are fundamental for becoming a real undistorted Non-AHEE audiophile.

Raul,

I think you are relying a bit too much on superlatives and absolutes in your language and accordingly overestimate the tendency of other educated people to act like sheep and follow the "AHEE". If a study were done, I think you would find many other educated and independent thinking "AHEE" similar to you, with some of the same and some different beliefs and interests. That's a good thing! Glass half full, not totally empty...

There are many "Rauls" out there. Maybe just not using the word "AHEE".

Dear Mapman: Agree that are many other persons that are thinking and experienced audio subjects " out of the box ", I never said I'm the " only ": not.

My posts about are not exactly to convince any one, it's clear that when people are sticky to " something " only them can be unglued.
What moves me about is to make some conscience that not all what we have what we experienced what we learned and what we belive and are sticky with is right, there are several subjects that are wrong and alternatives " unknowed " for us that helps to improve to rectify what is wrong in favor to be nearest to the recording.

Unfortunatelly in some of those alternatives we have to turn around not only our believes but many times our be-loved electronics or audio items " we like it " and unfortunatelly too we are not prepared yet to do it we don't have the correct attitude to do it.

I know that we have to change in some ways if we have to grow up and the first change must be in each one unbiased attitude because with out it we can't really change.

Why is that?, well many of us are accustom/ears-equalized to those: mid range lush colored sound, smooth highs, non-accurate organic bass and the like.

What could happen when instead of all that kind of sounds that you are accustom to start to hear accurate, neutral, non colored, low distortions performances through your system?

what you will hear is something different from what you are accustom something different for the better where the music you will enjoy and that comes full of " emotions " now will sound not only nearest to the recording but nearest to the live music as never before.

Accurate, neutral, non-colored, low distortions does not means in any way_ cold, analitical, no-emotions and the like: NO, what means is that we can have all what the music it self can make through our senses but with accuracy.

Live music has its own agresiveness and normally has not that " smoothness " you are accustom to or that lushness you " die for ".
As Lharasim posted we have to understand first how live music performs. Try to make an experiment: bring to your place some one that can play a horn/trumpet for you and hear it seated 3 m. from him, listen and try to find that lush or smootness you normally like. You can try wit other instrument and then you will understand all what is wrong in what today we are listening through our audio system.

Many of us think that music " belongs " to the mid range well in a home audio system my take is that music belongs to bass range, as better the system bass management as better the music experience.

It's in this frequency range where IMHO we have to start to inprove. A clear, accurate, neutral bass range puts the right frame for the music where in the other frequency ranges you will hear that transparency/dynamic/power and information that you are unaware right now. Having the right system bass management means lower IMD/THD in your system and you can hear it and when you experienced this for the first time you will be speechless.
As with this action there are many others but IMHO this is the first step.

Yes, I know that many of us think that we already has that right bass management well ask you if can improve it and work there before you buy more cartridges, TTs or tonearms. For we can enjoy at top level all our new audio toys we have to improve that bass management system ( as other things around. ): the cartridge signal is processed through the system.

To achieve that " right " bass management ( with passive system speakers. ) we need to have two self powered subwoofers working in true stereo fashion:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27

Secon step could be to match system electronic impedances in the same manner that with a cartridge we look to match it with the right load impedance. That means to match phonolinepreamp output impedance with the amp input impedance and the output amp impedance with the speaker electrical impedance curve. In this last case we need that the output impedance on the amp be/stay very low: 0.05 ohms is desired.

You can follow questioning me but is useless, what can help you could be to try and test/experience those two steps along attend as many times you can to hear live music.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.