Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?


Having owned many good turntables in my audiophile life I am still wondering why not one of the modern designs of the last 20 years is able to beat the sound qualities of an EMT 927.
New designs may offer some advantages like multiple armboards, more than one motor or additional vibration measurements etc. but regarding the sound quality the EMT is unbeatable!
What is the real reason behind this as the machine is nearly 60 years old, including the pre-versions like the R-80?
thuchan
Dear Lewm: +++++ " many times that if THD had so much "meaning" in relation to lowering audible distortions in our audio system, then amplifier development might have ceased back in the 70s, with the advent of the Phase Linear 700 amplifier. THD was at least down to the 5th decimal place.... " ++++

I agree about and other that that amp design you name it was a very old one with several " faults " ( very old active parts and passive ones too. Deficientes ones. ) against today best SS amp designes there are good reasons why that " meaning " that you said tell almost nothing in reality exist and certainly has a predictable meaning in what we are hearing.

THD and other distortions as IMD or other generated elsewhere the system chain as: electrical impedance non-matched electronics in between or non-matched impedances between speaker and amplifier or between cartridge and tonearm or RIAA eq. deviations or TT unstable speed and several other kind in all cases all those kind of system generated distortions have a real meaning and always affect and degrade the audio signal.

That we can't detected it does not means did not affect the system quality performance level because it does.

Why can we detect easy some kind of generated ditortions as could be a on-matched cartridge/tonearm or TT speed unstabilty? because we all are trained to detect it. We recieve that training through our years of audio experiences, this kind of training was not " on porpose " one, we was not consciente of that training we just learned.

Now, if any one of us receive on-porpose training to detect almost any kind of system link generated distortion/coloration the we could be aware of many " things " that are happening and that we are listening that we can sware came in the LP grooves when in reality are added distortions generated in the system and that did not came in the LP grooves because were not in the recording proccess.

For the last 10-12 years I by my self received ( I'm still learning about. ) on porpose training to detect some kind of distortions that many of you can't do it and not because I'm better than you or because I have " golden ears " ( that I don't have for sure. ) but because I'm trained and I know exactly what to look for in any audio system when some of you do not know what to look for because you do not know how that " what look for " it sounds, you think is part of the LP grooves.

I posted all those in other threads, I have my own training proccess and my own " scientific " evaluation proccess. Each one of you can " invent " yours.

It's a fenomenal experience to be aware with almost 100% precision where are in any system its distortion problems and I don't said that from " out of my mouth " some of you already experienced some of those abilities that I acquired through many training years.

Of course that some of you already had a similar on porpose training to detect and be aware of different kind of distortions and can understand in full what I'm telling here and the ones that does not acquired yet those abilities is obvious that can't understand in deep part of my posts.

I give you one example: I can tell you in a " good " cartridge set up if overhang is on target against what other people could think is VTA/SRA unaccuracies. Both " distortions " are very similar but not excatly the same " sounds ". Btw, I learnede about by " accident " mading mistakes in my cartridges set up and I started to learn and " invented " a trainng/evaluation proccess to detec it easily where you can't do it with out know what to look for.

My, take is that because we can't detect distortions does not means does not exist, ceratinly exist and certainly always degrade the audio signal so lowering any kind of distortions at each system link always will improve our system MUSIC reproduction enjoyment.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Thuchan, Yes I read your post of 8-20-13 about the Timeline. I guess I did not understand that the "R 80" is the EMT 927. And your speed management is the stock system as supplied with the 927. I did not understand that or the model designations fully. Sorry. That answers the speed question.
Dear friends/Dkarmeli: These are the true facts ( not " illusions. ) measurements/specs in the 1957 designed 927:

speed unnaccuracy: +,- 0.15%, the swing tell us that the speed unaccuracy in reality is: 0.30% ( the worst I ever seen in any TT. ).

wow an flutter: +,- 0.05% with a swing of: 0.1% ( again the worst I ever seen in any TT. ).

signal to noise ratio: 58db ( again............. ).

as I posted: the 927 was designed for radio stations or recording companies with way different needs that any music lover audiophile has.

Gentlemans you can't compete with a very old cycle in a today Formula 1 race.

The 927 is a " tour du force " designed not for you or me but for RS or recording manufacturers of those very old times.

No one can't change all those facts and I respect that " I like it " but does not means is right and certainly could be that that " I like it " is plain wrong.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Dear Tbg: +++++ " if they measure something of value " ++++

normally almost all measurements measure something of value. Measurements normally are not arbitrary but looking " to know something ". Sometimes a measure has no value for us because is not related with what we want to know but even that that measurements has a very specific meaning and value too.

++++ " I would love to see valid measures of this " +++++

me too!!!!, measures that content the drag stylus effect on speed tiny changes and speed recovery at different grooves recorded velocities and at different position trhough the LP recorded " land ".

Now, more that see those valid measures what I would like is that the TT designers take in count those measures.

I can tell you that seems not and easy task to have the overall measures because maybe different stylus shape and tracking cartridge self abilities could modified those measures. I don't know for sure but could be.

I don't know how can affect for that kind of measures changes in the VTF due to LP warps and many other faults that are happening during LP playback.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Yes Peter, the R 80 is the preversion of the 927, about 66 units were built so it is said. They all differ a little on small design parts. They usually don't carry a lamp on the left side. The motor management I am using is not the standard 927 one.
Mr. Dusch, a former engineer at EMT developed a separate motor management system for the 927. This I am using. Btw he runs his own business and web site now.