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to base or not to base.

i posted a thread about listening levels & this kinda floats along with it.

it appears that most people have different ideas of what good bass response is & what it should be for instance i have heard much talk about the bass response in the B&W line being great & as having a full bass presentation but when i got a pair of B&W'S home i found them to be the exact oposite with a bass response that was weak & thin.

im not singeling out B&W nor am i saying anything bad about them but i am using them as an example as i just had a pair & the sound is fresh in my mind & no matter how i set them up they couldnt give up any bass.

ok here's another thought,we hear all the time about music being presented the way it was recorded or the goal to achive is to get as close to live music as can be had,are bass players invisable & durring a live show cant their notes be heard as well as the other instruments? with the exception of the rolling stones ive seen plenty of bands where i can clearly hear & feel the bass player now shouldnt rigs be able to produce the same bass that ocured in the concert,i cant see a band putting on a show where they had a good strong & clear bass then going into the studio & all of a sudden cutting the bass in half so the bass has to be on the recording i would think.

to me music seems lifeless without at the very least a decent bass response & it takes on an allmost a m radio type tone & over & over again i hear guys rigs in their homes & at dealers where they think they have excellent bass response & to me it sounds like all upper bass instead of a full bass response.

ive asked questions like this to others in the hobby & dealers too & most of the time i get the same response about being a bass head or somthing along them lines,isnt bass part of the music & shouldnt a full range speaker be able to reproduce a decent bass response down to atleast like 30hz on its own without the use of a sub?

is it just me or are there several different definetions of what a good bass response is,im not looking for quotes from a spec sheet or anything but if a speaker system is specked out as having a bass response of 40 hz how can it ever produce any real bass,dosent sub bass start at below 20hz?

im curious as to what other guys idea of good bass is & how they prefer it to be presented in their rigs.

mike.
128x128bigjoe
eldartford
4,262 posts
 
Most "Bass" is above 30 Hz. Most Pro sound subwoofers are rated only to 30 Hz. The bass you hear at a live pop concert is not very low, but there is a lot of it.

The small drivers used in home audio systems can reproduce low bass, but not at the kind of volume you like. If you turn up the volume the low bass will go missing, or worse, distort the upper bass. If you really want to sound like a pop band you need to get a huge speaker with several 15 or 18 inch drivers just like the ones that the bands use.
bigjoe's avatar
bigjoe OP
693 posts
 
i think we can all agree that bass must be accurate & not boomy or slow,where i enjoy a full bass the most is in the lower to medium listening ranges where i do most of my listening.

my speaker system will go down to 20hz & they have excellent bass thats full without being boomy or slow & my passive sub is set to take over from 20hz to 10hz,even though most of what comes from the sub is inaudible to me it makes a dramatic difference when combigned with the rest of the rig & makes for a wider sound stage & adds alot of depth to the music.

i understand that most bass is at 30hz or above but there is still bass well below 30hz,to me a full bass response is equally as important as the mids & highs so im left wondering why so many owners & manufacturers alike make a consience choice to let this information slip away & gear more twords upper bass & mids.

mike.
gregm
3,407 posts
 
im left wondering why so many owners & manufacturers alike make a consience choice to let this information slip away
I can give a few reasons.
It's difficult to design a full-range passive spkr and the result is invariably very expensive.
It's also very bulky -- to go down to 30Hz & below (i.e. you're best using large drivers, transmission lines, etc)
It's often very difficult to drive full-range spkrs well, so amplification becomes an issue.
It's best to biamp -- but how many a'philes will consent to having 4 channels of amplification.
It's also difficult to reap the benefits of a full-range spkr at both moderate volume and higher volumes: in order to perceive bass at lower volumes you need to equalise it carefully (boost the spl and make sure you're not creating phase anomalies) because we're less sensitive to lower freq at lower spls. If you play that same spkr loud, the bass will be perceived as overwhelming (because our ears, at higher spls now, are more sensitive to the lower register).

A trade off/compromise, etc, I suppose! But I too like to be able to go down to the 20's...
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