How to reproduce sound of piano

The grand piano is probably the hardest instrument to recreate convincingly in a domestic hi-fi system. This is because its frequency range is possibly the widest of any musical instrument and the dynamics of the keys-on-strings from ppp to fff without compression, is often beyond the ability of most amplifiers and speakers to reproduce at realistic sound levels without distortion.
It IS possible to achieve but I suspect that it might require more than $25K (although you may be lucky to do it 2nd hand)?
I've only heard it achieved on vinyl so a top quality turntable is essential with an equally top flight tonearm and cartridge.
A great preamp is required as is an amplifier capable of providing immense effortless undistorted power into the finest speakers you can find. This last requirement (for both amp and speakers) will be more realistically achieved by the use of a high-pass filter into 2 self-powered subwoofers like the Vandersteen 2Wq.
This will free-up the amplifier from the onerous task of powering the low frequencies (below 80Hz) and thus give it far more 'headroom', whilst the main speakers will provide better undistorted sound with the subwoofers providing the bottom foundation that the grand piano requires.
If you can obtain a realistic presentation of the grand piano from your system, it will almost certainly provide great sound from all musical genres.

I have only heard good reproduction of Piano in two systems. Piano and voice is the litmus test for me, and I am sure many others ; 0 ) I have been trying to place a piano in my room for years. I finally have satisfying results but still NO REAL Piano. However, I do have pleasing music and the soul of the Piano.

Your best option and I am not trying to be "smart" is a Player Piano. Especially, since you listen to many solo piano works, and keep your current system for all other music.

If the above is not what you had in mind than......

I personally have not heard convincing/pleasing piano at your budget. I am sure it exists, however, I have not heard it. The turntables alone in the two systems I have heard that can do piano SOME justice are both over your total budget. To really get Piano right the turntable needs to be first rate, as does everything else....

The Two Systems: that satisfy my Piano lust

I hope to not appear to braggadocious as system "2" is my current system, but it does do piano well and it was the instrument I was seeking to bring home, that and voice.


1. Oswald Mills System at RMAF 08

Saskia Turntable
Schroder Reference Arm/Soundsmith the Voice Cart
Oswald Mills Electronics: Amp and Preamp
Oswald Mills AC-1 Speakers

2.
Raven AC-3/SME V/Koetsu Coralstone
Doshi Pre Amp
Quicksilver V4 Amps
Quad 2805's

Clearly two different approaches to music, however, both bring it home on the Piano/Music.

The problem with getting piano right seems to be with the turntable and speakers. Very few turntables hold super accurate speed and are transparent. The other is multi driver speakers trying to create the cohesive whole of the piano. The single driver Quad brings the cohesive nature that piano needs. Mind you it is not perfect, as it lacks ultimate impact, but it makes up for impact with speed and tonal shading. The compression Driver AC-1 or other compression drivers offer exciting dynamics which piano craves. These types off speakers to me will offer you pleasing piano. No dynamic speaker did for me on piano.

Just my 2 cents.

David

Try ATC active speakers and a JL 113 sub or SVS PB13 Ultra (with the ports
blocked) - I guarantee it will get you pretty darn close. Piano is not easy as it
is both percussive (110 db dynamics) and has precise timbre as well as a
presence (like a harp) from the resonance of the unplucked strings (needs
super low IMD distortion and very low Q speaker on low notes). It also
requires a speaker with wide even dispersion or it will not sound natural. You
definitely need a sub though for a convincing grand at your price point. The
speaker designer was a professional pianist and this seems evident in how
the design handles piano.

[quote] Are electrostatics way to go? [/quote]

For midrange clarity yes but for realistic dynamics and LF response - no. Let
me say you need a very clean waterfall plot. If you go dynamic then try
damped drivers (paper/pulp or soft/woven fabric - designs that do not ring -
as you want to hear the piano strings resonate not the sound of the speaker
driver)

I agree with Dlanselm - a player piano is really the only way to go, but obviously your choice of source material is severely limited. By way of reference, even the hyper-sampled digital keyboard software like Ivory or Virtual Steinway isn't completely convincing through a superior stereo system - though it's better to my ear than the best SACDs (which are next in my pecking order).

I also agree with Shadorne that a subwoofer is probably a good idea. If you scan these threads you'll find lots of good info on subs from Shadorne, Bob Reynolds, Drew Eckhard and a few others who are well informed on the subject. As to main speakers, timber & dynamics are both critical it's hard to find speakers that are great in both areas.

MBLs offer great dynamics, but they strike me as compromised in tonal balanced. Conversely, he smaller Ohms are omnis that mate well with subs and IMHO reproduce timbre exceptionally well. However, they lack the dynamics you're seeking. I haven't heard the bigger models but, they might be worth checking out. Ohm sells factory direct and money back, so your bet is hedged.

Best of luck.

Marty

Your room is a little on the small side for huge fullrange dipoles, or I would suggest that route.

Still, could be a couple that will "mostly work"...(they lack only the deepest bass).

These go against the side walls, with the slots facing each other. (you can add a single large sub, or a couple of small subs).

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1233281376&/Beveridge-Model-3

PS....I don't know the seller

Dave