acoustic system resonators

Paul, I agree with everything you said.

Perhaps I was unclear. My suggestion was not so much intended to ask whether you hear a difference or not, but was intended to discern whether you actually prefer the resonators or not, making some less than perfect effort to control for bias. If the buyer likes the "blind" effect, it seems to me that is what counts.

Also, if the resonators do make a piano sound more natural, it should be measurable at the speakers. I'm not talking about the perpetual argument over measuring THD or the argument about measuring a single component without regard for its interaction with the system in which it resides. If the resonators make a piano sound more natural at the speakers, the effect should be measurable. Has anybody done this and published the before and after measurements? Perhaps I am alone in this, but I'd really like to see the measurements.

In fact, I'd love to see somebody: a) record various piano strikes on an actual piano and record them and measurement them with something that measures transients, decay and specturm, and b) play it back through their system with and without the resonators in place. It would be interesting, at least to my compulsive audio mind, to compare the measurements of the three. Testing the system without the resonators would tell you how the system differs from the actual piano (of course, you would have to measure the decibels of the actual piano and set your volume control to same when testing the system). Testing with the resonators and comparing it to the measurements of the actual piano and to the measurements of the system without the resonators would tell you what, if any, sonic attributes of the actual piano were restored by the resonators.

Lastly, this would be a lot of work, so I imagine its easier to argue about the whole thing. Not that we wouldn't argue about the test results. Hmmmm. Jeff

Physically these may alter the sound in the higher frequencies by adding harmonic overtones that ring well after the orignal excitation. (Studios use all kinds of tricks such as reverb etc. to give richness and provide hearing cues as to the location of elements in a sound stage...reverberation of higher frequencies provide detail on location of an instrument or voice)

Is this additional coloration better than the raw mix?...that will depend on your perception.

yesterday I got 6 resonators - 1 basic, 4 silver and 1 gold special.

I installed as suggested by sending the designer pics of my room, and based on reading the 6 step outline.

SInce I am just getting over a cold and my head is a bit stuffy, I'll have to reserve judgment for a few days.

So far I am not getting the huge soundstage as other have reported, (I am going to put the 2 outer units further apart to see if that helps)

Tonally, I am getting good results, and on the Athena Rachmanoff LP I seem to be able to make out instrument seperation and detail that I dont recall hearing before.

The real test will be in the next day or so, when I listen to a cut - then remove the bowls from thier bases (putting them in another room) and listening again. I think this will be the best telltale test.

I have no emotional investment in wanting this room treatment to work. If they work, fine, they will be a welcome upgrade. If they don't that's fine too
they are quite expensive, and I can use the money elsewhere, or just heaven forbid, save it. (plus I ordered an expensive full front end that will be here soon, so I don't want to spend needlessly)

One thing I have found so far is that bass seems to be better integrated, but a bit less. I recently changes my system to have the tubes powering just the mid/high cabinets, and a remote SS amp poweing the woofer units. I love the adjustability to be able to dial in via remote just the right amount of bass for each song/listening volume.

With the resonators in the system, I find I am adjusting the bass much less than before, as if the bass is better integrated and on many LP's needing no adjustment. One of the caveats of this biamp setup is I always felt their was a slight discontinuity in the bass, (though my atma MA-1's powering the full spectrum sounded more coherent, the SS controls the bass a bit better)

I was planing an adding 2 Velodyn SMS1 units to tame nodes (which I will probably still do) but I am suddenly very happy with the bass.

I'll definitly post back soon, when I do the test where I pull the resonators out of the system.

Emailists, I should warn you that the resonators, Shun Mook mpingo disks, Halographs, Brilliant Pebbles, etc. all interact with the WTC control on the H-Cat.

I just realized this again yesterday when I came to the conclusion that I just could not find the right setting on this control with any degree of confidence, even though others seem to have no difficulty, at least after the H-Cat is broken in. Today I am once again going to remove everything of the resonant nature and build up slowly as I had done with the previous, H-Cat P-12B X5.

Let me start out by saying that I think I decided I really didn't want these to work. I would be happy to send them back and get my inordinate amount of money back. Yesterday I did a power upgrade (Oyaide receptacle and plug) feeding my main Romex extension cord from the wall, that was only about $200 and made an amazing improvement.

Okay so tonight after listening to Bill Evans at Shelly's Manne hole (jap. pressing) I pulled the 6 resonators off their bases and put them in another room under a sweatshirt.

The bass bacame woolier and more pronounced, and the drum kit/cymbols got flatter and localized to my speaker. I can't characterize the piano differences.

I put them back in and listened to the same cut. Now I could hear what the resonators were doing. Tiny details of the recording seemed to pop out, and I thought I almost heard some phasing. The bass become better integrated, the piano took on bit more of a life of it's own, and the drum kit fell a bit further back- and sounded more realistic.

I am still not getting a huge or deep soundstage from the resonators, but either with playing with position, or getting 2 more for the side walls (where I have none) maybe soundstage will come.

I feel like perhaps my ear is not fine enough to discern what the resonators are fully doing. At this point I would characterize them in the more subtle of upgrade areas, at least in my system.

I must say this though. A number of months ago I was auditioning the Tron Seven phono pre against my current GCPH phono. I had to switch back and forth a number of times (I could do this in about 20 seconds and with the record playing) before I really started to hear what the Tron was doing differently than the GCPH. At first I was shocked how similar they were (cudos to the bargain priced GCPH - the Tron at 4X the cost has been catagorized as a Steelhead beater!!), but as my ear became more refined to the differences, it became easier to hear. I truly think by the end of the session I had become a better listener. (and a bit poorer as I opened up my checkbook)

The resonators make me think that in a few months from now - I could even more clearly identify when they were in and out of the system, because I will have really "learned" what kind of contributution they make.

So that is my "still early on" response.

It will be interesting once my H-cat preamp gets here in the next 2 days (hopefully) if more or less is revealed about the resonators, and if I find Like Norm that they have to come out to set the H-cat (I have little other room treatment though - just roomtune cornertunes to tame corner loading)

I am still not 100% convinced. I want to do several more rounds of removing/replacing the resonators with different types of music, and see what occurs over the next few weeks. I'll certainly post back.