Why Can't Tubes Be Mass-Produced Cheaply?

Look, I have both NOS and new current tubes in 12AX7s, 12AU7s, 12AT7s, EL34s, 6V6s and 6L6s from a variety of manufacturers, both USA made and Europe that I run in both audio amps and CD players (Rogue, CJ, Jolida) and guitar amps (by Fender, Mesa, Divided by 13) and I honestly believe that the tubes made now are as good if not better than ANY used or new NOS tube I have in my collection. The new JJs are excellent tubes as are those by Electro Harmonix. I have no experience in the 300B single ended world so cannot comment there.

My senses and experiences tell me that there is much mumbo jumbo in NOS and I honestly believe this to be a unneccesary waste of good money.

The one NOS I will say IS as good as any out there are a couple of Telefunken smooth plate 12ax7s I have. They are very good but not that much better than the current JJ, Ei or TungSol.

I just worked with one dealer who will not sell anything other than new Electro Harmonix tubes for use in a few preamps that are "demanding" of 6922 tubes placed in critical positions where low noise and reliability are important, along with at least a touch of musicality. Of course I will also be trying a pair of Amperex PQ white labels I have around here.

Stevecham,

What I said in my post is:

When comparing small signal tubes such as 12AX7, 12AT7 and (especially) 6922, the modern versions from Sovtek and others are nowhere close if the comparison is made in a critical position.

By critical position, I'm referring to small signal tubes in EAR 834, Aesthetix Io and Callisto, Audio Research Ref 2, input circuit (12AT7) of VTL 450, 750 and 1250 to name but a few.

If you doubt me, do an experiment by putting new production tubes in the first stage of an Aesthetix Io and to make things fun, go with a .2 MV cartridge such as a Koetsu Jade.

If you can get new production tube to work as well as Telefunken, you need to reveal your magical source. I have a lot of people, including several manufacturers that would like to buy some of these tubes.

Some of the difference in opinion on whether NOS sound better than current production can be differences in hearing. As I get older I am less and less able to tolerate harshness or grain or glare. Speakers and gear that I once enjoyed now grate on my ears.

So my guess is that people who think that current production tubes sound great are better able to tolerate whatever distortion it is that hurts my ears. And that's not a bad thing, it saves you a lot of money, but your opinion may change over time.

Albert's point is well taken and something I mentioned earlier. If the circuit is demanding, like driving real hard or whatever, then there probably are tubes that work better than other. Maybe NOS, maybe not. I have also had good results with new JJ and EH small signal tubes. (I have a pair of the new ECC99 on the way, heard several good reports on these.) I'm using some NOS Tesla right now that I find very special and they only cost $40 a pair. No, I won't tell you which they are cuz I don't want the price to jump. ;-) In my amp I have found that the new production EH EL34s are better than some very high dollar NOS EL34s that came with the amp when I bought it. These were supposedly the best EL 34s ever made. I can't remember exactly what they are and I'm not at home right now to check.

Not to stray off topic too much but I have moved away from such equipment because I have found other designs that work better without the need to drive the tubes hard. I've also not found in my humble experiences a design using the 6922 that I like. And I've tried the PQ white labels and a few others. I'm not slamming any make or model, just hoping to help explain why some may find NOS necessary and others can find great performance with some current production tubes.