2. pc-audio
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Computer audio, I am not convinced yet ......

I am extremely interested in using the computer (Mac or PC) as a source for a digital playback. It seems to be the right direction for modern digital playback, a good alternative to the age old CDP, has endless potential and most convenient. So, I got an EMM DAC2 (retail $10000) with USB input and connected it to an Windows laptop via USB. My preamp, amp, speakers and cables are also of very good quality. Played some track on my system from the PC (used Audacity software, a very good and high quality software for sound processing). In 2 minutes I had to turn it off. It is just mediocre sound compared to playing the same track through a $1000 CDP(Sony SCD XA5400ES). It is almost like listening to an internet-radio through my PC speakers. I was wondering what happened to my first rate sound system ? Later I replaced the Windows PC with a Linux based MacMini, hoping that I will get the result I wanted. But it did not improve much. I did not like the outcome. My listening experience with the computer set up was 4 minutes(2 with PC and 2 with Mac) total. Since then I have gone back to using the same old CDP. I think I blame on the USB interface for this failure. The USB interface has not come up to the state of the art of a modern CD player. I did not try other interfaces purposely. No High-Res, only 16bit/44.1 audio files. I dont listen to SACD. Fire Wire to USB, USB to SPDI/F, Fire wire to HDMI, Firewire to SPDI/F, and almost an infinite combinations of patch up ideas are out there. But I dont like a patch up solution nor do I like to compromise the sound in favor of convenience.

I have heard many audiophile friends changed to computer based playback system many years ago for good and they are happy too. But I am not convinced yet. I am eagerly waiting for computer audio to catch up. I am sure it is in the making but it still has to go quiet a long distance.

Your thoughts are most welcome.
topmostaudio
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Mapman wrote: "it seems USB connections seem to be much more hit or miss for really good sound than older more established and standardized interfaces designed specifically for computer audio, like TOSLINK and SPDIF. I have yet to get any clearly bad results with either of those."

Well I have. I used to mod both transports and DACs from other companies and I found lots of crappy designs. Much of the time I observed that one company would design a S/PDIF interface and the other would all copy it, even though it was a poor design. I don't believe I EVER measured one S/PDIF output circuit that was actually 75 ohms output impedance.

As for Toslink, the earlier transmitters where inherently bad, but the later 3.3V versions got better. They all add jitter. Its easy to screw these up too, like forget to put the decoupling cap close to the driver etc..

I've seen it all. None of these designers are crack digital designers with a lot of experience IMO.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Topmost wrote: "I have no knowledge of how the USB is implemented. This is exactly the point. The technology has not been matured enough."

You listen to one interface from one company and you come to this conclusion?

You should audition more USB interfaces, and particularly USB converters. There is a LOT better to be had.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,928 posts
 
AE,

I'm sure that there are lots of bad sounding older Toslink and SPDIF implementations out there. Some cheap less capable newer ones as well. I have only tried SPDIF and TOSLINK in recent years and from companies that have some focus on good sounding audio products. Not the best or most expensive, nor the cheapest mass market stuff. I have been pleasantly surprised with the results that I have heard can be achieved. Definitely better and more affordable as a whole than was typically the case years ago with many analog sources of the day. So there has been progress in my eyes. Of course, there is always a way to do things better. USB use for hifi digital (USB is a general purpose technology being used now for hifi audio its not designed specifically for that) is newer and not as mature, and hence probably more problematic I would think still. The question is always how much does it matter and for how much. I suspect USB will become more mature over time and add more value in future scenarios where higher resolution audio streams specifically are involved. But currently, in applications where TOSLink or SPDIF suffice, I suspect it is still more hit or miss. That will change over time though as things progress though I would bet.
topmostaudio OP
28 posts
 
Steve. N., Thanks for the suggestion. I believe the 5th generation USB converter you meant the OffRamp 5 USB converter ? I will have to try this one. Can you also mention some other high quality USB converter ? What is the best quality power supply to go with it ?
A USB converter and then the DAC ? This will add one more stage in the signal path and one more pair of ICs, and one more power supply, etc, etc, etc. This is getting too messy !!! Four to five extra components for just replacing a simple CD player !!! That is why I like a good DAC unit with USB input which has been implemented correctly to minimize number of components as well as expensive ICs.

Also a DAC with high quality USB input and a high quality volume control will be my preference !!! Is there any such thing in the market which will outperform my Sony SCD XA-5400 ES player ?
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,928 posts
 
Top,

Why must it be USB? WHy not just use non USB digital input which you indicated sounds good? I can vouch that it generally does in my case as well using various combos in recent years.

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure USB even done well will necessarily sound better at present. It may be wiser to hold off on USB for now. IT will either get better, more reliable, and less expensive over time or else something else new will come along. I think USB will be around for quite sometime, but in that it is a general purpose technology and not designed specifically for audio, it may always be more hit or miss unless one rally knows what one is doing in choosing.
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