A few systems heard at the Rocky Mntn. audiofest

I went to the show as well.It has been many years since I went to one.approx.10 years ago at a Stereophile show in S.F.CA.
My reference is live classical music since thats what I've been playing in our local symphony for the past 15 years as a bass trombone player for The Skagit Symphony.
I had spoke briefly to Albert Porter about my lack of enthusiasm I heard with the sound of most the sytems at the show.
Almost none of them generated any true acuarate deep bass or mid bass foundation to the music.Most sytems were tipped up on the top end,and lean and light in the mid bass and non existent in the deep bass with a couple of exceptions.
The Herron room presented music with its proper weight in this area as well as the Sumiko room with the 5k Rel Sub in the corner of the back wall.One fellow asked to play a chinese drum CD I beleive and the whole room was shaking and vibrating with so much undistorted dynamic slam.What a treat it was to hear and feel that.
I was dissapointed with the sound of the ZYX Universe.I know I might be stepping on peoples toes by saying this,But it just was not acurately portraying the acoustic trail of the reverberation surounding individual instruments or voices.Oddly the cartridge sounded lean and bright in the upper mid band with the sound to forward sounding even more so on the ZYX 3B.It also lacked power and depth in the deep bass and midbass.But this is coming from my trained ears as a musician for 35 years.If you want high fi sound then I guess that is what this cartridge does,But IMO I'm a Raul converter and just simply love the Dynavector XX by a very wide margin over the ZYX Cartridges.
But I still had a great exausting time at the show.I had the 3 day pass and needed all of the 3 days to hear a little from most the rooms.I missed the AG horns .I guess I need to go next year and hear that.
The other room I liked was the Oracle V Turntable with their own special made preamp.The Oracle table sounded so much like real music being played.It had the coerence from bottom to top that all the other tables were missing by a wide margin IMO.
Well if next year is anything like this year they will need to extend the show and extra day and getting larger rooms would help acostically the systems being shown.

Doublebass,

Your impressions mirror mine regarding the lack of full frequency source material. To everyone else, I don't take exception at all to what Golden_ears suggests. Also, I didn't take his post as a criticism of me nor was my reply meant as a response to a supposed personal attack.

Also, you won't go wrong with a Dynavector doublebass. Be aware though that the first Airy 3 S SB I saw at the show had some kind of problem that was glaringly apparent to me with the first note I heard. It appeared to be mounted correctly or at least close enough. Maybe it was loaded improperly. What I heard was exactly what you describe. I can't remember the name of the room but I did tell them upon leaving that I owned the exact cartridge they were using and they had a problem. I'm only sharing this if this is the same cartridge you auditioned. Again, I love the Dyna's too.

I listen to more live music than most people I know. My preference is for jazz, blues and bluegrass. Realizing that this type of music is usually amplified vs. classical which is not causes some conflict in audiophile circles about comparrison of components. I honestly fail to see a difference here. One simply needs to listen to a source you're very familiar with backed up with experience as a live listener of that source. For myself I don't concentrate on audiophile recordings upon audition. (just to be clear, I consider many generic first pressings to be superior to their re-issued counterparts) I've enjoyed the advantage of knowing a lot of good musicians and have jammed with them for several decades, using mostly acoustic instruments, unamplified. I'm very familiar with the voices of these instruments and feel that it's a very valuable asset to bring into the auditioning of any component. To my ears you can bring as much value to the audition with experience such as mine vs. intimate listening experience of classical. Certainly, it is easier to evaluate anything if you have a live reference.

I have a few vocal benchmarks of artists I've heard many times. I worked with the Kingston Trio three times for three week stretches each, two performances each day. I know Bob Shane's voice. Willie Nelson and Neil Young are artists that I've heard many times and who remain faithful to the recordings when playing live. These are the voices I use during audition.

Listening at various volumes is an often overlooked aspect of auditioning. Take charge of the volume control. I try to buy components that portray accurately what I'm listening to at any volume. If I don't hear the details or bass response at lesser volumes then I develop the opinion that I need to find something else.

Back in the good old days when I had a really great local high end shop I could audition components in my home for extended periods. Under those circumstances I could tell more when a piece is removed from my system than upon first listen. If this were still a common practice I'd likely continue to buy retail.

I hope one can gain a little from my eperience here. Auditioning is a real challenge. I recall fondly those individuals throughout my life that helped me develop a modicum of skills for auditioning. Best advice? Work on your audio memory of live events. If you go to a rock concert then come home and listen to the same material. Do the same thing with any live music you attend, even if it's just to compare your memory of a tenor sax live vs. a recording you know well of the same instrument.

Thanks for your response.I know I have seen posts previously on the Audiogon about how outstanding the ZYX is,But I was really taken back from what I heard at the show,and did not consider the musical presentation true to the live source.It was as if someone had eq'd up atleast +6 db from 4K to 15K and then -6DB from 16k to 20K.Thats how the ZYX Universe sounded to me,and the ZYX 3B was bright,hard,brittle,lean in the bass and no bass fullness or power.I'm wishing that these cartridges properly set up don't sound this way.
My experience with anything cryo treated should reveal in a musical presentation deep bass,and a very natural extended top end,with a huge wall to wall soundstage with layer depth of field eteched throughout that soundstage.

Having exhibited at the shows for some 16 years now, I have found that the only way to survive the show is to play the music that I like personally. My taste is not that of the average audiophile- I like new material a lot, from ambient to punk, metal to classical and a lot in between. I especially like things with big bass, 'cause I just do.

I've heard the female vocals with light jazz backup a little too much in my time and so I don't bring any to shows. Exhibitors have to live with the music they bring and I get tired of ripping my fingernails while trying to climb the walls :)

I don't doubt that someone passing by would not like everything we play- I'm a big fan of Porcupine Tree and King Crimson, but most people don't even know who Porcupine Tree even is. Shame on you if you don't know King Crimson- they've only been around for 36 years. Islands is a real treat on a good system with original vinyl...

Anyway, if you are at a show- bring your own LPs or CDs and if the exhibitor will not play your selection *then* leave- not before! If their system is really all that great, they will be happy to show it off.

You may have to be patient, as a previous request may already be playing. IOW if you go through all that trouble to get to an audio show, and then are put off by a cut someone happens to be playing, you could be shooting yourself in the foot.

Golden ears, just to clarify my statement about being put off by someone's music. Steve and I went to the Classe room to talk with one of their sales people to get some specific information. I have one of their amps and had to know something about the construction. Since there were people in the room listening to the system, we retreated to the corridor. We were getting some very good information and advice when the room across the hall began playing some poor sounding music at loud volume. The music interfered with our ability to converse.

If the people in the room were enjoying the music, good for them. They could enjoy it just as well with the door closed. We could not conduct business with their music blaring, and yes, the conversation led to a sale.

I was not walking down the hall closing doors indescrimately because I did not like the music. There was a specific reason for not wanting to listen to the music in one room.

I'm not disagreeing with Mr Atmasphere. We are not talking about the same thing.

I'm not familiar with that King Crimson LP, I might have to look for it.