life without audio dealers

I totally agree with Jmcgrogan2. It is just wrong to use a loaner from a b&m store then buy that very item from an online source. It costs that dealer real money to give you that service (which is why some do not offer it).
As to life without b&m stores, I live in an area with one small hi end dealer with a limited selection of brands. It does make life more difficult and I have had to go the route mentioned above of buying and selling used and learning by trial and error. Whenever I travel to bigger cities, I always map out a plan to visit hi end stores to broaden my knowledge and experience with gear I have read about but never actually listened to.

I am surprised by the number of people who suggest that in-store demos are worth so little. I personally like in-home demos because they give me a feeling of comfort. However, I also appreciate listening in B&M stores. I find that the neutrality of listening to a component in a slightly different (but broken in) set-up provides a "neutral ground" for listening. I also think that there are a lot of good dealers out there who have heard a lot of things, help set up a lot of systems in a lot of rooms, and can in many cases point out what those of us who have listened to fewer systems miss.

I am curious... If in-store demos are worth so little, what is the reason? I would love to read peoples' ideas about this...

Are dealers' systems (outside a particular component being listened to) sub-par? Are dealers' listening rooms badly designed? Are dealers' systems plagued with bad synergy between components (impedance matching or low-current design solid state with electrostats)? Is it perhaps that customers' own systems and rooms are simply not up to snuff so any benefit heard in store will not necessarily be heard in one's own system?

To completely dismiss a demo at a dealer is an extremely narrow minded approach. While room interactions cannot be accounted for in such a demo, it's assumed that if you're buying a serious piece of kit you are also serious about the acoustics of your room and have it properly treated. As to the actual sound of the system, as long as a person is familiar with the components in front of the speakers, side-by-side comparisons at a dealer are an invaluable part of the purchasing experience. Frankly, I don't expect dealers to haul 150+ lb speakers to people's houses for auditions. Also, it's a catch 22 in most cases on the smaller stuff. It annoys me no end when a dealer doesn't have a speaker on demo because someone has it at their house to demo; they simply can't win. But it's also important to pay attention to what a dealer is pushing as often they will assume that you are clueless and set up the front end to accentuate the strengths of the line they are trying to push.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that if it wasn't for a dealer audition, I wouldn't have the speakers I have now; I would have stuck with B&W as that's what I know and missed out.

for a brick and mortar store to keep up with the fickled nature of the lunatic fringe, the store would have to change brands faster than changing clothes. we would all like to believe the latest piece of gear is the greatest, but the 'belief' is generally just a 'compulsion' to spend money and try something different. like it or note, most music lovers do not need the trappings of hi end audio. In fact, more and more are jumping off the merry go round, than jumping on....stores or no stores

T-bone & Bar81,

The reason behind my statement is that most often, to the point of being a near universal, complaint of folks who buy speakers (only) on the basis of a dealers demo and then take them home to discover that their room is too small, too large, has the wrong dimensions, that their rooms configuration doesn't allow for optimum set up, that thier electronics either don't have synergy or that the amp/speakers don't match., etc, and they then post here wanting to know what electronis they should get, how to set up their stuff to make it work, and how to treat their rooms, what kind of wires, cords, and IC's, they can buy to justify their decision they made in their speaker purchase.

If a person is well versed in audiophelia and knows all of the possibilities then perhaps he would have an excellent chance of succeeding with a purchase based on a showroom listening session. I just did that! Successfully!. But I knew what I was listening for and I knew the demo components strengths and failures sufficiently to make good judgments. I also knew how the speakers would set up in my room.

But FWIW, in the mid 80's I bought a pair of Thiels based on a showroom demo and its reputation. It had thunderous and tight bass, great imaging, etc, etc, etc and I had no meaningful point of comparison in the show room where the set up and electronics had been optomized to match with the music being demo'ed.

I got them home - all pumped up! In my room I found that my room did not support the bass very well, and it was bright beyond bearing. We didn't have the internet then, only the rags (Cordesman loved my speakers) and dealers and I had trusted them.

Since I couldn't take them back I tried to make them work. Mod'd the cross over (as per Thiels rec's) went thru some amps til I 'found' the amp Thiel used in the speakers design process, got a new pre-amp (tubes) and over hauled my sources. Two years later when I had these speakers up to par, so to speak, I was so worn out by it all that I was happy to sell them to another eager novice who bought based on the same reviews and general reputation.

I think at that time my experience level was not all that different from the folks who post threads here asking for help and opinions about potential selections.

So I don't really care what all of the experienced audiophiles (you guys) can do, I'm far more interested in what will work out better for the beginning audiophiles and what will help them avoid some of the traps.

FWIW. BTW, how is that for an extremely narrow point of view?