2. amps-preamps
  3. 149424-133172

2000-2500 USD budget for an integrated amplifier. Do amplifiers sound the same? :)

Hey guys!

My first post here! Great community here!

I recently bought a pair of Klipsch Forte III and I’m thinking about upgrading my current budget amplifier Cambridge CXA60. My budget is around 2500 USD. I hope you guys can give me a few insights. Cheers!


Current setup:

  • Macbook Pro
  • Network streamer + DAC: Chord Mojo + Poly
  • Amplifier: Cambridge CXA60 (60 watt)
  • Speakers: Klipsch Forte III, 99db sensitivity
  • Subwoofer: Klipsch R-115SW
  • The room is pretty small: 4*6 meters (roughly 13*19 ft) but very well acoustically treated (I covered all the power corners with GIK acoustics bass Tritraps and Soffit + complete acoustic treatment on early reflection points

The Cambridge amp sounds nice with the Fortes but I feel like I’m missing out on something. I don’t know what "something" actually, since I haven’t paired the Fortes with anything yet but the Cambridge.

So the crucial question is: should I upgrade?

I’ve been considering integrated amps like the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300.

I know that it’s kind of an overkill to drive the Forte III with respectively 200 watts (Rotel) and 300 watts (Peachtree).

However knowing myself, I might upgrade the whole system (speakers included) in like 4-5 years or so. And it might be nice to have a capable high powered amp around (with lots of power headroom) so I won’t need to spend further capital again on a new amplifier in a few years.

On the other hand, I feel like I’m wasting quite a bit of money buying a powerful integrated amplifier right now. At the end of the day the Cambridge CXA60’s got 60 watt and it is more than sufficient to drive the Forte III.

This leads to another thing that’s bugging me… The sound quality of an amplifier! People like Ethan Wiener argue in a very convincing way that when compared evenly, the sonic differences between amplifiers operated below clipping are below the audible threshold of human hearing.

This guy summarized this view here:

https://jakekuyser.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/do-hi-fi-amplifiers-sound-alike/


Furthermore I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations. These colorations might sound nice, but I’m more of a "I want to hear what the artist intended" type of a listener.

(((To me Sonarworks was an eye opener when I first used it to calibrate my Sennheiser HD800.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2017/8/24/headphone-shootout-sennheiser-hd800-vs-hd800s

It made me think about the extreme amount of the self delusion nature in the audiophile community. Many audiophiles rave about the alleged flat response of the HD800 when there are indisputable peaks at 5,5kHz and 11kHz, plus very very weak bass. Without correction they’re almost annoying to me and they definitely do not deliver what the artist/sound engineers intended. However, these cans are very often just described as extremely revealing, clinical, unforgiving… which eventually led to the claim that the HD800 is picky regarding the amp…)))

Questions:

  1. So considering that I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations, do you guys still think that I might be able to get a "better" sound by upgrading the Cambridge to a more powerful amp, like the the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300?
  2. Is it worth to spend 2000-2500 USD more for this? Or should I use this money for a better DAC or a network streamer?

Sorry guys for this long post!

Cheers,

Egoq


egoquaero
headphonedreams
527 posts
 
This whole sub-section of Audiogon forums would be pretty useless if all amps sounded exactly the same, wouldn't it?

About you question a very sensitive speaker should probably not be driven by a strong amp since those may sound worse in low levels unless they are very expensive. I would recommend getting the best amp you can find for _your_ speakers. If you need to change in five years then you can change both amp and speakers.

Please read through this discussion for proof that some people think that all amps don't sound the same.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/my-long-list-of-amplifiers-and-my-personal-review-of-each

elliottbnewcombjr
5,344 posts
 
You already know it is the speakers and room interactions; or headphones which are speakers without room interactions.

Digital: I agree, properly matched to other gear and the speaker's impedance and very importantly to the speaker's efficiency, nearly anything will do, differences imperceptible. 

Analog: does sound different than Digital and can be heard by nearly anyone.

Analog equipment varies piece by piece: by intended design, quality, tube selection, adjustments, alignments, differences exist and can be heard.

Analog or Digital: Receivers: the manufacturer has properly matched everything. Separates: you or experienced dealer/adviser need to avoid potential problems.

Analog is generally lower powered, thus efficient speakers are analog's best friend.
..........................................

.After 50 years of listening, I prefer Analog, both source material and reproduction.

I sum it up as: 'Analog gets the Overtones Right'.

Now we add the difference of words to describe those real audible differences. It's Pandora's box. 

My recommendation is to try analog. Your Klipsch speakers are highly efficient. Low power tube amps can easily drive them. As you say, smart to buy higher wattage if you can, for future speakers that may not be as efficient. 

Then you will want to try analog source material, audible differences exist there for sure.

tweak1
3,655 posts
 
I didn't see you mention power conditioning or cables, both of which will make or break the realism of the sound

Since WireWorld has recently introduced their series 8 , the series 7 Eclipse are a great used bargain

Core Power Tech makes fantastic power conditioners
timlub
2,039 posts
 
If you want to stay with solid state,  I'd take a look at a Hegel H160.  You should find one in your price range.... Why the Hegel,  Sounds different than your Cambridge or the Rotel.  For my test,  better with your Klipsch. 
roberjerman
4,319 posts
 
If you want a better or "different" sound - change your speakers - not the electronics!
More to discover