I've been looking at replacing my aging Vandersteen 2Cs. I'm stuck with a plasma screen over a fireplace and currently have a Vienna Waltz Grand on the mantle as a CC. I've been considering getting 3 identical speakers, putting the CC in front of the rarely used fireplace, considering standmounts. I'm getting some resistance with that planfrom my wife. My budget is up to about $2500/speaker. I've been considering Selah Tempesta or Tempesta Extreme, several Salk models, Vapor Cirrus. Philharmonics are out due to the look and size. Ran across a great deal on the TAD inspired Pioneer EX series. I can get the S-2EX for about $5k/pr including the stands, MSRP is $8500. They won't sell me a single S-2EX for the center, but they do have the S-7EX which I can get for about $3k including the stand. It would be about 21-22" high on the stand. I know it's better to have 3 of the sam, but given the concentric tweeter/mid on these speakers, the vertical dispersion should be excellent and I wonder if it would sound just as good, if not better since the CC has 2 woofers while the S2s have one. I think it will also look less imposing that way.
If you look at big theater or THX setups, the front three speakers are IDENTICAL in many cases. I use three center channels... best way to go in my opinion.
An identical center channel is the only way to get an exact timbre match across the front sound stage using free standing speakers, although you can get very close with "center" speakers having a coaxial or vertical MT array, driver compliment matching the main speakers (in-wall speakers in that configuration will match because their baffle configuration does).
Your brain forms its impression of timbre from the spectra of a direct sound and what it believes to be the sound's reflections.
Although one can easily make different speakers identical on-axis, lobing from horizontal driver pairs and differences in polar response from the center channel baffle being wider horizontally but narrower vertically mean it won't be exact.
Different low frequency extension will negatively impact phantom image placement due to differing phase lead caused by the speakers' high pass function.
Phantom image placement will also suffer if the cross-over points and slopes are not identical because the left/right and center channels all-pass behavior and relative phase will vary at different frequencies.
The EX center channels employ the same coaxial HF/MF units just as do their L/R partners and, as a result, are really good matches. OTOH, simply having any center in the center and farther from the side walls changes the timbre of its reflected sound compared with that of the L/R speakers. So a perfect match is impossible, except under extraordinary acoustical conditions, even for identical L/C/R.
"05-22-12: Elizabeth The identical center speaker is a waste of money. And will be stupid looking just like your wife says."
That's ok, she can waste money with the best of them. Having the screen over the fireplace already looks stupid.
"Buy speakers with a dedicated center which matches the timbre of the main speakers, and fits above the fireplace."
Not any easy task trying to find something good that will fit in that tiny space. I may contact Jim Salk to see if he has any ideas.
"Just stop being an idiot... LOL (I must be friends with your wife hey?)"
I've tried to stop being an idiot, but after 25 years with her I've realized that's an impossible task, at least in her eyes. I know you're not her friend since she doesn't have any.
"05-23-12: Elizabeth Do you want to sleep with your wife? Or sleep with the fishes?"
"05-23-12: Kr4 The EX center channels employ the same coaxial HF/MF units just as do their L/R partners and, as a result, are really good matches. OTOH, simply having any center in the center and farther from the side walls changes the timbre of its reflected sound compared with that of the L/R speakers. So a perfect match is impossible, except under extraordinary acoustical conditions, even for identical L/C/R.
Kal"
Good points. Your review is one of the things that got me thinking about the EXs, they were definitely not on my radar. I think it may be easier to get her to accept a CC that's <2 feet high, it won't seem as imposing as 3 towers or stand mounts. Given the excellent vertical dispersion of the Pioneer, I suppose it shouldn't be much of a problem. I don't know why I'm so enamored of the EX series, I think the cheapskate in me likes the idea of getting a good deal. Should make resale without getting killed easier if for some reason we don't like them.
All good points here. Remember that most modern home theater processers include some form of equalization. The better ones will do a decent job of minimizing the differences between the mains and the center. It can also smooth the crossover region between your smaller center and the subwoofer. Pioneer's MCACC, which is what I use, is quite good at this, IME. Without such equalization, matching the brand helps, but only identical speakers will get you as close as possible to a match. IMHO, this is more important for MCH music playback than for home theater use.
If you listen critically to classical multichannel (DVDA or SACD) you need five (count em) identical speakers.
If you watch movies the center speaker should be optimized for dialog, which means far-from-flat frequency response.
Most of the stereo signal on stereo recordings is common mode (Mono). Although it is rarely done, the center speaker in a derived multichannel system should logically be superior (not inferior) to the others.
You think resale value on anything Pioneer is going work out in your favor? They're the Dodge of audio, 3 years from now you'd be lucky to get back what you paid on them in interest.
Compared to the others you're looking at from Salk, Vapor, and even Selah ... Pioneer won't give you anywhere near the same quality of construction and components for your money. That's real value, not some dealer knocking 20% off an inflated retail price. And any of those 3 shops will build you a center channel however you want it.
And just to state my personal opinion/bias, I think the TAD's are the most over-hyped, under-performing speakers I've heard in a long long time. So based on that, I have zero interested in the Pioneer.
I don't listen to classical at all. Mostly classic rock, some more modern stuff, occasional Jazz. Sources are DLNA streaming from my Mac to Oppo-93, Blu-ray and DVD concerts, Pandora. Room constraints have me stuck with Paradigm SA-15R 30s for surrounds, in the ceiling a few feet behing and to the side of the listening position.
i'm buying a set of Salk HT2-TL's with matching center tomorrow. I'm buying them without hearing them so can't comment there but Jim does make a matching center if you decide to go with the HT2-TL's.
We've been working on a custom supercharged center that will fit in the short, wide space between the mantle and the plasma. I think I'm going with the SCST and let my wife pick out the veneer with me. The CC will be in black to match the bezel on the screen. Happy wife, happy life.
Ok, Elizabeth, I'm making my wife happy. Ordering a pair of SCST in an unusual spalted beeswing makore that Jim just purchased: http://www.wood-veneers.com/Makore_Spalted_Beeswing_4282-04_JPG.html He thinks it will be very unique.
He's making a front ported CC with the same drivers to fit the space on the mantle, that will be in satin black.
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