Roor,
The improvements will be very significant.Master clocks are one of the most underutilised part in Digital playback.In case of Esoteric,any Esoteric SACD player ,you should not buy the player without the clock. |
>>08-25-10: Fafafion
In case of Esoteric,any Esoteric SACD player ,you should not buy the player without the clock.<<
Having heard almost every Esoteric cd player for hundreds (and some thousands) of hours, this is unequivocally one of the dumbest posts you'll read in the forums.
Dealer disclaimer |
IMO, I agree with Audiofel..If your dissatisfied with the 03SE and what your hearing then I suggest looking at all the other components in your system first. |
My personal listening experience on the TEAC line is largely limited to Esoteric single box X-01 Limited, X-01 D2, and P-03/D-03 combo players. Heard these players by themselves and with G-03 G-0S, and some 3rd party clocks. Clocks appeared to have significant audible benefits on the combo players, but negligible effect on the X-01 single box units if at all.
It has been suggested that this might be systemic, at least on Esoteric players.... Clocks may not be effective on Esoteric Single box unit in general... but I have no proof of this statement. Bill Feil has much more experience than I do on the whole Esoteric line, and perhaps can shed some light on the admittedly murky clocky issue. |
Guido,
The only comment I'll make in this thread is it's ridiculous for somebody with extremely limited Esoteric experience to suggest that a cd player should not be purchased without an external clock.
Actually it's not ridiculous.
It's ignorant.
Dealer disclaimer |
Audiofiel,
Obviously you have been misleading a lot of yor customers.
I suggest you take a flight,go to Japan.You would find that MOST Japanese Esoterics owners will Use their machines with a n external clock..Now,the improvements ina well set system[by someone who obviously know how to set a system} is not subtle.It removes the digital grudges out.To some,this is crucial;but to you ,obviously this is not important.
If you are Really a dealer for Esoterics why not contact them yourself and find out for certain.Obvious to me now you are not as experience as you make out to be, |
ROOr,
these are the improvements you would expect from adding an external clock;
1.More naturalness i.e. closer to analogue .This you would not be able to hear if you use class D amp.
2.More air and space around the instuments.
3.Better timing to the music.
as you can seen ,these are not slap in your face differance that dealers generally love to demo,but crucial IMO to long term system satisfactions.
Generally ,the above benefits are seen in most digital player,BUT more so in Esoterics machines.
Most Esoterics owners in Japan match their gears with Tubes amps,(Not digital amp ) |
Fafafion - I don't question that you hear what your hear, but I was wondering how you could possibly know what MOST Esoteric users in Japan were purchasing and how they match their systems? Just curious. |
Gentlemen,
Some single box players can benefit from reclocking data when slaved to a superior external clock. That is why some have clock I/O connections. The performance of these units will improve when the data is clocked at a more precise rate. If the internal clock of the single box player is superior to that of the external clock then it reults in worse sound. Timing errors are also present in some single box players where the drives and DACs are not clocked at the same rate.
Digital separates without both synching is fraught with timing errors that can result in less than stellar sound quality.
Regards,
O.A. Sonuga
Chief Designer
Dynamic Design
Where Neutrality Becomes Reality
|
To OA Sonuga,
I agree that clocking can improve the performance.
However, my objection is to one of the respondents who recommends that the brand in question should not be purchased without an external clock.
That is simply untrue and illustrates a complete lack of understanding in regards to the manufacturer's totality of offerings.
Dealer disclaimer |
Fafafion ..Your an idiot!!!Sorry but it just had to be said. |
Chyro,
"but I was wondering how you could possibly know what MOST Esoteric users in Japan were purchasing and how they match their systems? Just curious."-My wife Is a Japanese,My Father in law {a Japanese living in Japan,a professor of Electronic engineering,and an avid audiophile )often takes me around to his(rich) friends houses listening to various systems;exchanging ideas......So what I am telling you is from my first hand experience;choose not to believe at your own peril,I have got nothing to gain or lose....
Totapfactor;believe me when I say that I am not an idiot.I show your post to my subordinates they can't believe how ignorant you are.My referance system alone probably cost more than your car and house commbined;) |
Audiofeil,
With Regards to Esoterics;
!.Would you not ask your customer to change the Stock cord supplied by Esoteric or you think there is no difference?
2.What about footers like Finite Elemente under the Esoterics,would It not make significant improvements?
It would be naive to think that a design product is "perfect" and cannot be improved upon.There would be pointless for the clever people at Esoterics to go out of the way to prepare the machine to be able accept external clock.
I would go on to say that with Esoterics,the improvements heard in using an external clock,is better than changing the power cord.This has been my experience |
Power cords and isolation are separate issues.
Your contention, and this is where we disagree, is you've stated that an Esoteric cd player should not be purchased without external clocking.
You are just plain incorrect.
The number of Esoteric cd player owners who purchased an external clock with their player represents a very very small percentage of total sales.
Please don't mislead the readers with opinions.
The facts speak for themselves. |
"My referance system alone probably cost more than your car and house commbined;)"
And I bet ya have a Porche ..what a tool your are! |
"believe me when I say that I am not an idiot.I show your post to my subordinates they can't believe how ignorant you are.My referance system
alone probably cost more than your car and house commbined;)"
Uhrn.... All, I know this is August... weather is hot, and we all tend to be just a little short tempered... Heck, I happily chewed up a colleague of mine just a couple of days ago... Yet, may I gently recommend everyone to cool thy horses, be constructive, and to post messages that, in some small way, may have a technical usefulness for everyone, beyond this fun-filled and fizzing flame-war?
There are at least 2 general opinions on the topic at hand:
A. External clocks always make a significant difference/improvements.
B. External clocks can make a significant difference on some multi-box players.
My admittedly limited experience is suggestive to "B". |
Guidocorona ,IMO this portion of this site is a guide,a reference, a tool (whatever ya want to call it)for users to ask and get informed. When a user gives info which is totally untrue in every sense of the word it needs to be pointed out.Its hard enough to find the way in audio reproduction and when a user like Fafafion gives information thats bogus it helps no one and should be pointed out..plus the guys an idiot with his audio system that worth more than my house and car together,lol... |
Toetapfactor, I agree completely about the laudable goal of being informative and constructive on the fora.
On the other hand, while I deem the electronic bed-side manners of some users rather appalling, and I may recommend them a prompt remedial and mayhaps yearly reading of the old book by Dale carnegie, I should also urge everyone to avoid any form of posts "ad hominem".
Bringing the discourse back to the technical side, It would be extremely interesting to hear more opinions about the effect of external clocks on single box players, and on X-03 in particular.
By the way, it is quite possible that in some geographies there may be a much more common coupling of G0x clocks to all TEAC Esoteric [please note no final "S" Fafafion] players, regardless of single/multi box format. This may be reflective of a TEAC marketing strategy that has established a unique regional purchasing style/trend.
Regards,
Guido |
Hi, I have heard the G-03X and the G-0Rb master clocks in the same system ( X-03Se with Nagra tube Amps , all Synergistic R. cables) . The G-03x was't that much of an upgrade in compare with the standard clock in the X-03 integrated player. Waiste of money I think.
Don't forget a good set of digital ic aren't cheap + good ac cable.
Put the Harmonix 666 Million tuning feet under your X-03se and you have a better result for the price of 1000 USD.
If you want the real deal go for the G-0Rb. That clock has blown me out of my chair ! This is 10 levels closer to the audio nirvana.
I play for the moment the Wadia 861Se ....I know what I want next :-) |
