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An impression of some phono stages

Today I went to an audio shop in Amsterdam, A10Audio/room4music. The shop together with the Dutch forum Hear.nl and audio importer Music2 organised an phono stage comparison day. I will not call it a review since the a proper review takes more time.

This meeting has 3 purposes.
1) To meet some fellow audiophiles
2) To compare some phono stages
3) To bring A10Audio/room4music under the attention.

First I want to mention the Alex, the man who runs A10Audio/room4music did a terrific job. He and Music2 spent 2 days setting everything up and using a 1000Hz tone to mark where the volume knob on the preamp needs to be so all phono stages would play at the some volume.

Two audio stes would be used The first set is:

Speakers Magico M5
Turntable Acoustic Signature Thunder
Tone arm SME 5
Cartridge van den Hul Canary
Pre amp Octave Jubilee
Mono power amps Octave MRE220
Cables Sonore/Kemp/Nordost

First phono stage we listened to was the Nagra VPS. I had high hopes for this one. It always gets could reviews in the press. So when the needle hit the record I was unimpressed to say the lest. I know the Magico M5 can sound very detailed almost analytical. But this sounded just muddy, unfocused.It had nice bass but there was no 3D sound image. No separation between the instruments. I thought maybe I was sitting in the wrong spot but when I looked around in the room I could tell no one liked what they were hearing.

Next on the list was an Octave phono module. This phono stage is of a modular design it is a phono stage that can also function as pre amp. We did not use the pre amp. We uses a MC module which used a step up transformer. This sounded a lot better. There was a nice 3D sound stage. Good instrument separation. It sounded much more alive then the Nagra. I still detected a bit of a tube sound. But very subtle. Some people like this I was not so sure. But the phono stage was very good.

Third and last on this set was set was the van den Hul Grail. This time the difference was not so big. The sound was similar as the Octave. But there were also some small differences. To my ears the van den Hul had even better instrument separation and better mid and high. The lower octaves were a bit less impressive. Also it was a bit more clinical compared to the Octave. But in my ears the van den Hul Grail sounded a bit better then then Octave phono module. But I could be happy with either.

As far as I could gauge the group no one preferred the Nagra most preferred the Octave one and some the van den Hull.

All these phono stages cost around 5500-6000€

Nest we would listen to a other set. While this might not be ideal but the shop owner did not just want to show 1 set so we moved to a different room. Where the following set up was waiting.

Speakers Marten Django XL
Turn table Acoustic Signature Storm (Thunder)
Tone arm SME V
Cartridge van den Hull ?? (more on that later)
Pre amp EMM labs Pre2
Stereo power amp Octave RE290

First on the list was a EAR 834P. However it turned our there was a technical problem. The right channel did nothing. Some things were tried. But in the end the most likely scenario seemed to be that the cartridge was broken. One of the coils seemed to be fried. Due to time restraints the EAR was not reviewed any further. From the aprox 3-4 minutes that I did hear it the sound was not that great.

The turntable was changed to the one we used earlier. But this meant we could not listen to the Blue amp model 42 since the blue amp only has balanced inputs and this turntable ahd a fixed interlink with RCA connectors.

Then we moved on to a Dutch brand Array. The phono stage is the PH2. The first series (PH1) were sold using the van den Hull name in the US. Some people love this phono stage. I can understand why. It does nothing wrong. But neither does it do anything right. It is just some much of a "high end" audio sound, to dead clinical. There is no live no enjoyment to it. Some high end audio can sound like this. It lets you hear all the details but no music. It costs about 2400€.

Next was the RCM prelude. While the lowest octaves and the transparency were noticeably less then the Array at least the music was back. I liked this phono stage. It was nice and dynamic with a good open sound. It really did not do anything wrong. This one costs about 2000€

Now at my request the Symphonic Line phono stage was hooked up. This is a second hand and the asking price is about 1900€. Compared to the RCM it sounded a lot more natural. But was lacking bass. Still it sounded very good. Very free flowing open sound sound without sounding analytical. But the new price is about 4000€ and it was certainly not twice better then the RCM and depending on taste the RCM might even be better.

Last but certainly not least was the van den Hull Grail SB (special balanced). This phono stage costs about 13000€. But is sounds so good. We used the RCA inputs since we could not change phono interlinks. According to the importer it sounds much better when using the balanced inputs. But everyone agreed that even using the RCA it sounded absolutely great. Now I have not heard many phono stages in this price range. But is beats everything I have heard. My previous reference was the Pass XP-25 as far as I could tell the van den Hul Grail SB beats it. The sound is just so good in every way I could find nothing to fault.

After the listening we talked a little. One of the most interesting things I noticed. That (almost) everyone preferred the second set. Even though it was a lost cheaper. People thought it sounded better balanced. And I agree. Personally I think the Magico M5 were to blame for that. IMHO they are a love 'm or hate 'm speaker. Most of the people in the group certainly did not fall in the love 'm group.

Just prove that more money does not always make for a better sounding set.

I have taken the Symphonlic line with me. First impressions are not that great. The mids and high are great. But it seems I have lost all low frequencies. All the oomph is gone. I have to check to see if I did not make a wiring mistake. But so far the lack of low is a deal breaker.
mordante
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,341 posts
 
SOunds like fun, and an interesting experiment.

I would go in expecting certain phono stages to be a better match with each setup for specific technical reasons that deliver better sound. Then see if expectations turn out to be true or false and why that might be. I would not go in assuming that any particular device will necessarily sound best because of cost or reputation, though that might in fact pan out in the end if set up optimally. Its more about how that device specifically meshes with the rest of the system. Then of course personal preferences come into play.
mordante OP
511 posts
 
The Nagra I think could have performed better in a different system. We used Octave pre and power amps in one of the sets. So maybe that gave the Octave phono module an advantage. Also we used a van den Hul cartridge so the van den Hul phono stage also had an advantage. Maybe if we used Nagra amps the Nagra would have sounded better. But that is hard to say.

I do not like Magico speakers but at least they let you hear what you feed them.
mordante OP
511 posts
 
So the story continues. The Symphonic Line went back to the store. Not that it sounded bad or anything, far from it. But before I decide anything I want to try out some more phono stages. This time I took home a RCM prelude. From what I understand this is the only product currently made by RCM. But I heard they are working on a more upscale phono pre as well.

The RCM Prelude is a two box phono pre. The box where it all happens and a separate power supply. On the back there are 4 sets of switch, load and input sensitivity for each channel.

Right now I have set it up to 250 Ohm and 0.6mV. Not sure yet if the load is at the best setting. Coming week(s) I will listen and see how it compares to the Symphonic Line Phono stage.

If anyone has tips on the correct load setting for a Lyra Dorian then let me know.
mordante OP
511 posts
 
So the RCM Sensor Prelude went back to the shop. To be honest I was hoping that the Symphonic Line would be better. But in MY systems is the RCM is clearly superior. The SL is not bad but compared the the RCM is has a much more coloured sound to it. The SL has more of a own sound. It sounded very good but it was a bit dark, less transparent. With the SL I was listening to the sound of the phono stage and not the sound of the cart plus TT.

The RCM has much less of an own sound. It lets you hear a lot better what type of cart and TT is being used. With the SL most records sounded ok, the RCM will let a good album sound good but a badly recorded album sounds bad.

At the end of the month I'll try out a Roksan DXP SE. Then I will make my choise, but the RCM will not be easy to beat I think.
lewm
13,171 posts
 
What's most discouraging about your odyssey is that you have made such a Herculean effort to evaluate phono stages (and to write up your results, thanks) and yet you have relatively little to show for it in terms of useful information. For me, this is in part because you did not audition some well known product which could be used as a reference by which the rest of us might get a better idea regarding what you heard. Reference phono stages might include one or another made by Ayre, Aesthetix, Einstein, Simm, Pass, PS Audio, etc. But I realize that these are all made in the US and may not be so readily available in your country. I am surprised the Nagra failed so miserably. Were you using a SUT or does the Nagra have sufficient gain for a LOMC cartridge? If you were using a SUT, that introduces all sorts of additional variables that could influence the outcome. The EAR 834P could certainly be said to be a reference product; too bad you could not have gotten around the problem with the cartridge. But
834P definitely needs a SUT with a LOMC. If you are in the 4000 Euro price range, I would think you have many excellent alternatives. If you prefer SS, then you might consider the Pass products, but there are many tried and true alternatives.
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