In my initial post I did say that I had no interest in either Accuphase or Luxman. They are overpriced badly in this country, especially Accuphase, and my sound preferences do not include Japanese solid state electronics.
Anyway, it appears that at this performance level there really is no substitute for a separate phono stage. Gryphon might be an exception if you want solid state, I don't know. This would confirm what I suspected.
Phono in a preamp would be a different discussion, though the outcome of it might be exactly the same - outboard phono is a must at this level, no way around it. Some onboard phonos would do as transitional to better sound.
Anyway, it appears that at this performance level there really is no substitute for a separate phono stage. Gryphon might be an exception if you want solid state, I don't know. This would confirm what I suspected.
Phono in a preamp would be a different discussion, though the outcome of it might be exactly the same - outboard phono is a must at this level, no way around it. Some onboard phonos would do as transitional to better sound.