Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?
smodtactical OPFor movie, theater and HT big 15" subs are great. But for 2ch hiend stereo system for music I find smaller faster drivers twin 8" or 10" are more precisely controlled and faster they mate up to your high quality mains better. I use two active subs L & R, with twin servo 8" drivers in each, they are next to my mains, and get fed from the L & R outputs of the preamp, the system sounds like it's just designed as a whole. Cheers George |
Yes, I have Vandersteen TreoCT ( no subs ) and 7’s with built in push pull subs and 11 band asymmetric EQ ( more cut than boost ) on a great deal of music the sub is clearly not needed. However the ability to high pass and separately amplify your main speakers and the sonic benefit of doing so cannot be overstated. Also you can swarm any sub and derive benefits from EQ below 120 hz. Note I said music above, Home Theatre is a different animal. |
The distinction between music and Home Theatre reproduction as it applies to subs is notably expressed here. I used to run previous, smaller sub set-ups much hotter (like +5dB's) when watching movies - as an act of compensation, I'm now aware - vs. when listening to music only. Since I started using a pair of much bigger (20 cf.) tapped horn subs in my system there's no gain-differentiation needed with music vs. HT. Music isn't overpowered by a sluggish bass but is instead more naturally present and organically integrated, while movies have all the visceral force and impact, even potentially intimidating in nature, to truly make the experience felt. Well-integrating subs IS about pursuing High Fidelity in its truer sense and certainly not like "added ketchup to some kind of gourmet food," but rather about making the intend of gourmet food taste gourmet in the first place. This applies to both music and HT reproduction; when the capacity is properly at hand you won't need "compensation" gain-wise in an HT-system, and it complements music as well. |
phusis: "Well-integrating subs IS about pursuing High Fidelity in its truer sense and certainly not like "added ketchup to some kind of gourmet food," but rather about making the intend of gourmet food taste gourmet in the first place. This applies to both music and HT reproduction; when the capacity is properly at hand you won't need "compensation" gain-wise in an HT-system, and it complements music as well." I completely agree with phusis. High fidelity reproduction of the bottom two octaves of bass on music recordings, through the incorporation of 2 or more optimally positioned and configured subs in a system, is one of the most effective methods available to obtain near state of the art bass performance that is powerful, fast, smooth, dynamic, articulate, realistic. seamlessly integrated with the main speakers with a sense of effortlessness and naturalness in virtually any room and with any pair of main speakers. Those dismissing the effectiveness of the scientifically proven method of utilizing multiple subs in a room/system(see the works of Dr. Earl Geddes, Dr. Floyd Toole and Todd Welki for details) as analogous to pouring ketchup on gourmet food or other tropes, are simply proclaiming their complete lack of knowledge and experience with this method. For those lacking knowledge and experience concerning the effectiveness of multiple subs, I suggest gaining knowledge through online research, gaining experience by auditioning multiple sub bass systems and determining the concept's effectiveness for yourself. Tim |
I have not experimented with the SWARM concept but did hear Duke's room at an RMAF (remember when we used to have those :-) a few years back an he definitely had good sound and balanced low end.. I have experimented with subs for two-channel music and surround as I have those two formats integrated into my current main system. What is current working for me is a pair of Seaton Submersives (active dual opposed 15 inch drivers). They do not have any form of crossover for the model I have. I use a DBX PA-2 drive rack which is a DSP that I use for he low pass crossover (many choices of crossover type), PEQ and RTA. I run my main speakers fully range and bring on the subs where they start falling off. I use an RTA app on my iphone that gives me 1/3 octave RTA measurements. The DBX PA-II has an iPad app so you can control all the settings remotely. It also has a large number of user configurable presets..so I can have a setting for each speaker I might bring into the system. The cool thing is you can play with all these settings easily from the listening postion. I stream a pink noise track, look at the RTA on my iphone and play around with crossover points, slopes, gains, etc while I am listening.. I like to play around with the crossover slope types while playing music with real bass (like Dire Straits - Six Blade Knife) and listen to the impact of making changes. Do I end up with something that is perfect....no., but I do end up with something I like. I also strongly agree that subs is not just about adding bass it can transform the spatial aspects of a performance. For surround I have an XLR switch box going to the two subs...so in surround mode Iet the Surround Pre control all aspects of the subs by routing around the DBX PA2 |
