Are You a Swifty?

tylermunns

583 posts

04-29-2024 at 04:36pm

@mahgister I hear what you’re saying but it is virtually impossible to “prove” one work of art is “better” than another.

My point is we must educate ourselves... I dont judge people who like some pop singer ... I can appreciate some others too ... This is not my point at all ...

All artists and all musicians must be respected... Taylor swift had talent as i already say...

But we must educate ourselves  and we cannot listen  all our life to the same few pop artists...

There exist evidence in acoustics research that we appreciate music with our body not with our consumers conditioned intellectualized taste...😊

To explore many different timbre experiences in many different cultures is the way to be deprogrammed from inferior consumers manufactured products... I dont say that it is bad to listen Taylor Swift ... I say that we must not only learned our cultural heritage as Bach and Jazz but others timbre perspectives why ?

Because our brain/body must learned new physical invariant through new timbre experience for new harmonies , read this very important research :

in short :

https://www.sciencealert.com/pythagoras-

The real scientific research in Nature :

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-45812-z

I am not interested at all by almost all pop music ... Save few exceptions... I am a bot from the jazz and classical threads ...😊

I am ’Crusty Old Audiophile’ and i promote Indian and persian cultures...

😊

Audiophiles population decline because education decline and easy way to have decent sound at low cost in earphone made ’Crusty Old Audiophiles’ as me complete dinosaurus...Especially if this audiophile promote acoustics experiments and readings ... Most young will think that i am crazy because any earphone is enough and cheaper...

’Crusty Old Audiophiles’ are crazy , especially if they listen jazz, classical , persian and Indian...

Can one man be right against million peoples ? Yes i am right against hundred of millions in America, culture and litterature matter ... Sorry for the crowd...

And a manufactured product even when talent is there is only that : a manufactured product... We can appreciate it few minutes as for most pop singer ... A.I. will show you soon ... ☺😊

When i was young i thought that music was  only about personal taste. I was wrong , as litterature, mathematics, or any arts, it is not about tastes only , it is about education...

All painters are not Vinci or Turner or Picasso...

i am one but there is no relation between my "crusty state"  and the artistic value of Taylor Swift... 😊

The point tylermunns and me had made if i understood him right, if not i will apologize to him , is precisely that some singer as so extraordinary, that they are over good or bad category. They transcend the hit parade as true artist and nobody can explain why.

They are so original they cannot be a manufactured product of the song industry, with great talent as Celine Dion, or with lesser talent. ( it is useless here to give a name it is also relative to the being of each of us, we can be moved by something that could not move others because we are all different)😊

Then immatthewj is right too ...😊

I feel that arguing about whether Bob Dylan is a good singer is kind of like arguing about whether Scotch whiskey tastes good or not.

Bob Dylan is not a great vocalist... This is evident...

The reason we love him is because of this mystery to be able to convey his poetry so powerfully with no real vocal talent. for sure he learned and do with what he had a good job. This does not explain once this is said his hypnotic voice power : his soul make it with his poetry psalmodied as an American Homer ...

America will had no more luck if the Kennedy crime is not fully solved... Dylan put it astoundingly well ... A genius cannot be explained by the concept of  talent and work ...

Learn how much you can Euler and Ramanujan art in maths cannot be reach by mere intelligence.

Leonardo da Vinci is not explained by talent gift and works nor Goethe ...

Genius is a spiritual gift over anything else... A relation with other plane...

It seems very few here had any pride about the greatest singer of the century being Ameerican neither chinese nor Russian or German or Italian. (  This is Toscanini saying, not mine and he know a bit about singing and never make lying compliment . He terrorised the singers and the musicians anyway never satisfied  ) .

i am a bit provocative but ... 😊

Celine Dion had more voice talent than most all female singers but do not touch Edith Piaf or any great female singer because art ask for a soul or a daimon or poetry something which tylermunns call "art"...

Dion was all his life under the spell of the man who designed and coached her from 13 years old to adulthood and he became his husband. He litterally created her persona . She was for sure talented more than most female singer it is evident . But it is not enough. Piaf sung in the street to eat . We hear his soul not his broken voice.

Tylermunns is then right ... 😊

You can learn to sing better than most...

But you cannot fake "art" or deliver "art" as a gained net profit after working hard...

The great Marian Anderson the greatest singer i ever listened to with Maria Callas never studied really. She was black opera singer at a times where it was a bit hard to emerge. She could rival Billie Holiday any day. And sing Bach or Verdi and Schubert . You cannot learn to sing like her even with a perfect voice. Callas express so much emotions we do not even could say that she had talent or it is because she worked hard. The part that move us cannot be learned nor be fake...

Soul is the part not learned.

I am in love with Anderson or Callas being through the singing. It is more than music there .

by the way Callas can even rival Anderson in the lied and in the blues and gospel and in the jazz, she rival Anderson only in opera. This is why Anderson beat any singer on earth. Whose female singer can rival at the same time Elisabeth Scwarzkopf and Billie Holiday in their own repertoire ? Give me a name ...😁 Good luck...

By the way it is for me the most beautiful woman to ever live... 😊

Only to much well wrapped mass consumers musical product are uninteresting for me ... I will not use the word "pathetic" ... She is talented anyway ...

But many popular singers male or female had a touch of genius. The list is too long to be written here...

But many others at least half are mass products for consumption ..  Do you remember the "twist" era ?

Celine Dion has talent...

But she was fabricated and designed by his late husband in his teen...

i cannot really appreciate her because his prestation lack "soul" and self creativity...

She had way more talent than Taylor Swift in my opinion ...

But when someone lack genius  or the inspiration of a free soul  , this sound as manufactured "perfection" at best at worst it sound as failure ...

Talent is not enough, it takes what Plato called a " daimon"...

Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen had it and some others...To some extent ...

it is called poetry...

Beethoven and Schubert have it too ... Or Bill Evans...

I concur

+1

😊

waytoomuchstuff

974 posts

04-16-2024 at 08:33am 

@tylermunns 

"Those two things are not alike.  
1) is a radical shift in what popular music sounded like.  
2) is more or less just a continuation of the same"

Nice summary.

Music experience is not innate taste merely and only, it is about educating ourselves about the world music richness and about our own body reaction ..

I am not born to like sarangi or tanbur over rap... 😊

I learned it ...

The fact that some rap is not bad ( after all it is mostly poetry and i like poetry by the way ) dont means that it is enough to hear mostly rap...

thats my point ..

Some music elevate the soul some not so much... It is my main criteria...

I prefer yoruba speaking drums by far to most rap try it :

For sure she is good , nobody can reach so much people without any talent...

now open your mind to something else :

If you dislike that, i dislike more "rap" in general and Ram Narayan is a genius ... Sorry😋

She’s a good singer, entertainer and a very good song writer. Plus listening to her makes me cool again for my neices and newphews.

Some people here only like ’their’ kind of music, which is why rap, and other forms of music, like taylor Swift get dumped on. Open your mind...

 

 

 

 

In french "talentueux" is a word...😊

Sometimes i miss the right  translation...

As you see not knowing french put you in eight grade and me only in the  missed translation casual class when we read more than one language  ..

I hope you live well as a corrector... Another one correct us too here 😊 ... Thanks anyway for your free service. it help us all especially me ...

talentuous
is not a word! It doesn’t even look like a word, unless you’re in eighth grade

The problem is that some bad music is now make in a somptuous box where there is nothing inside save a beat...

It is what i listened to when i had  16 years old.... My friend introduced  me to the Beatles and Bob Dylan... It was the "worst" i listened to ... 😊

And I think some music is perfectly fine to recognize as being of the five-year variety

i dont have music i like for couple of years only sorry ,...It never happened to me even under 20 ...

All music i ever loved in my life since 13 years old i like it today as much...

I discovered new forms of music but i never changed in the reason why i love a piece of music or not ...

It must be grounded in poetry and the words beauty...i begins with choral music when i was a baby....

Music must be grounded in deep roots of a soul and country spirit ...

The country dont matter ...

If is is a fabricated well make product with no real roots in poetry and a country soul a cultural tradition , i would not like it enough to listen to it a second time ...It will be an artificial artefact like a flying saucer passing in the sky for me ...Or an industrial repeated product... Artificial anyway ... Even if the artist is a genius...

Lady Gaga is very talented as i said but i cannot live with his product and she is a genius able to create one product...

Fado for example is not a product but is deply root in portuguese soul and popular poetry ...I cannot be bored by fado...

Lady Gaga bore me after 3 minutes of my admiration for his genius... I am sincere she is a very talented artist ... But i prefer the folk roots of Joan Baez for example or the roots of Billie Holiday who sing with his soul and for his people ...

Art must be rooted in human culture traditions and history...music as poetry...

Guess why Gaudi is the greatest modern architect: he is rooted...

Guess why most modern architecture if not hideous is without soul : no roots and on the opposite modern architecture is the same as pop music on all earth it uproot man from his own culture it extract him from his soil...

Why did i love so much australian  didgeridoo music with 40 albums ? Yes i confess ... 😁

it is rooted in deep soil and in dream spirit of 60,000 years history...

here is an encounter between two instruments from two rooted cultures i love it :

In my humble (not so much) opinion , there is two type of "popular music"...

---One popular music is rooted in deep soil of a country and in poetry as Bob Dylan An example taken at random,😉

---And there is "popular music" fabricated and manufactured in studio as in a chain of automobile assembly parts ( Lady Gaga ) .. It is not even bad, lady Gaga is very talentuous... It is just without "soul" nor any past roots...no attraction at all for me...

Then i am not a snob i like all popular music on earth save the one fabricated in North America ...I guess tylermunns is not wrong about popular music being trash even if the word trash is not the one i would have used ...

Between the two types of popular music i indicated above, there exist a third type which is a mix of the past roots of India and of the POP culture... I dont like as much this third type ...Bollywood Jasmine Sandlas so talented she was and she is please me way much less than Abida Parveen ... Because Abida is nearer his roots and sufi poetry and less POP in an American sense ...

I must be "snob" finally .... I admit it ... 😊

I am in love here:

And Marjan Vahdat is a popular Persian singer ...

I guess i am not so much "snob" as i thought at first ...😊

These Misra brothers are very popular in India...

I guess i am not a "snob" , it seems i like very much popular music...

I cannot have an opinion because i never listen to her "consciously"...

I had not listened consciously to no popular music after Bob Dylan Leonard Cohen old men and singers (Billie Holiday Joan Baez) of a past era now...

I am old i guess...

But i really think that this tylermunns claims as a musician himself must contain some truth because of my virtual visceral indifference to almost all popular music nowadays from North america since decades:

I said I think the vast majority of the most popular music today is utter trash

Now saying that ask for courage or taste for provocation...

Anyway there is so much tremendous music in the past and on earth that listening actual popular music of North america dont enter my mind not my ears too very often ... There is for sure exception as perhaps Taylor Swift is one but i did not even know her nor ever heard her ... I had no opinion about her in particular... I dont like Celine Dion and it is a good singer and like me she is from my country but i never could really like what she does at all even if i recognised his talent for sure... but what about Lady Gaga and othgers popular singers ? i cannot stand any of them for more than three minutes...😁

I must be "snob" ...😁

I like popular music of Abida Parveen especially ( the bigger voice) and Naseebo Lal though if i want to be provocative ... it is popular music by the way ...😊 and poetical and musical for me ...

I Like poetry ....And music ...

Try it

Speaking of popular music , i own more than 100 albums of Fado ... it sound good to me ... 😊