Art Audio Vinyl one vs Sutherland PhD

David,
Your words were "near match" and those were the words I used. I never said "the same". Is that not correct?

In your original post you compared the K&K to the Vinyl Reference. I articulated some of the many differences.

Now based on price you are comparing the K&K to the Vinyl 1.

What precisely is your point?

Are you being deliberately obtuse, I did'nt say the Vinyl reference was the same as the K&K, nor did you. The only point of difference is the degree of difference, I think it is small, you clearly don't. I repeat the circuits are near matches though the tube compliment is different, I presume you have had the lid off both.

In no way am I comparing the K&K with the vinyl 1, the point I was trying to make is that you get a comparable performance to the Vinyl reference for the price of a Vinyl 1 and that is what my post said, I think fairly clearly.

I have the PHD and can only say that it beat the pants off of a Sonic Frontiers that I once owned and as far as pre-amps with built in phono stages it also beats the Audible Illusions and Atmasphere pre amps that I have owned.How it compares to the Art Audio I can not say, but they build very good gear,my friend has the Clarissa power amp.

David12, to be fair to audiofeil, I believe he is taking issue with your assuming that the differences between the Vinyl Reference and the K & K must be small when you haven't even compared them. Without having heard either of them, I agree with audiofeil. Having performed many parts upgrades I can personally vouch for the major transformations that generally result, usually completely changing the sonic signature as well as the overall quality. The kind of shooting from the hip judgment you're passing off as fact clouds the issue. A simple rewording with liberal use of words like "might" would be better appreciated.

(breathe)

Just a couple of words. I have done a side by side of the K&K kit and the Art Audio V-ref. The K&K kit was built with S&B step-up transformers instead of the Lundahls and had a few "upgraded" parts. (cost was around 3K) This was before the last upgrade (big improvement by the way and only $45!). The comparison was done on an SME 20/ V combo with a lyra helicon SL. We also had a Lamm on hand as well. The sound from the V-ref and the sound from the kit are very close. Detailed, quiet, and dynamic if just the smallest bit lean in comparison to the Lamm. The Kit and the V-ref sound so alike I would be hard pressed to know if it was the v-ref or the K&K kit that was hooked up. Both are great. I haven't seen the parts in the V-ref but it's the sound that matters to me. Having listened to the Art Audio v-1 (not side by side with the others) it is warmer and was a little less detailed in my system but a better match to the lyra than to the Shelter that repaced it. Overall, the K&K kit was a big move up. With the latest parts upgrade for the K&K the slight lean sound has been addressed. It sounds wonderful with my Shelter 90x. Bottom line is the the Kit is a bargain. Kevin is great and easy to deal with. You will need to build the kit. (don't know if that matters to you)Both Art Audio stages are good, so is the Lamm, and so is the K&K. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Cheers,