Audio Research Ref: CD8

Mkilpi, I might say CD8 was not fully burned-in so that the frequency extremes might get even better, but I can clearly say the bass definition of CD8 is superior. It is faster and a bit more neutral in texture so that CD7 is trying to catch the timing and a bit lacks and feels like a bit heavy and boomy. I never felt CD7 had a lack of midbass weight, and indeed it was the player which had more weight and emphasis on midbass. While CD7 was louder and heavier in midbass, CD8 had a better control, faster and deeper (and probably lower) bass definition. So compared to CD8, CD7 sounded darker. On the other hand, CD8 did not have a tonal preference. The CD7 unit we tested did not have upgraded power supply kit. So, I cant comment on whether the new power supply or new DAC of CD8 or both of them creating the difference. Given Wsill's comments for power supply upgrade of CD7, I assume an upgraded CD7 performs better than original CD7. So, a comparison of an upgraded CD7 with CD8 will be more meaningful to evaluate the CD8. Best Regards.

For those who haven't seen it yet, there is a pic of an topless CD-8 on stereophile web site:

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2009/audio_research_cd8/

ARC finally replaced CD7 with CD8 in their web site but still it does not appear under new products, also the technical specs are still missing.

I copy paste CD8 from their web site below:

REFERENCE CD8 Compact Disc Player

We are proud to introduce a model that may be the most musical and musically accurate single-chassis compact disc player, the Reference CD8. It replaces a product that was still garnering five-star reviews three years after its introduction, the esteemed Reference CD7.

With the advent of the CD5 and DAC7 in 2008, we knew that the DAC used in our Reference player needed a newer, higher-resolution version. (The new 24-bit, 192-kHz chipset is not retrofittable to the CD7.) And, our engineers found a way to physically incorporate the same power-supply regulation used in the Reference 3, using a single 6550C to replace two 6H30 triodes, giving better performance and longer tube life. Other enhancements include our newest output coupling capacitors and special damping tweaks. The playback mechanism continues to be the unsurpassed Philips PRO2R — still the best dedicated CD mechanism available.

The REFCD8 also features a new dimmable display, allowing five levels of illumination or completely off. A small LED indicator remains lit when the player is on, as a reminder to prevent the player from being left on inadvertently. In size, input and output configuration, —and in all other operational functions, the REFCD8 is identical to the REFCD7. But there the similarities end.

Sonically, the REFCD8 stands in a class all its own. While retaining the lush, full embodiment of the CD7 sound, the CD8 adds new dimensions of transparency. It immediately shows greater transient speed top-to-bottom, purer resolution of low-level detail and expanded dynamic contrasts, with more bass slam, definition and extension. The soundstage is larger and more holographic because of the heightened ability of the REFCD8 to embody and locate instruments and voices. Rhythmically, the REFCD8 also picks up the pace compared to the CD7, with improved timing cues and better rhythmic interplay. You will find other sonic dimensions to marvel as you spend time with this enticing player.

Quite simply, the REFCD8 will have you rearranging your compact disc collection all over again as you rediscover and reprioritize old and new favorites. It really is the most mesmerizing, musically accurate CD player we have ever experienced — and what better way to bring enhanced value to a growing, and costly, CD collection!

Interesting. My hybrid CD7 also came with the dimmable display and LED indicator features so its looking like I did get a lot of CD8 parts after all. Sonically it is sounding even better with superior bass definition and extension, more neutral midrange with seemingly more detail and overall better soundstaging. In my setup from what I recall the standard CD7 used to bunch images a little at the center and close to the speakers. My unit spreads the image more naturally and seamlessly between and outside of the speakers so that it is easier to pinpoint each instrument's exact location (laterally, vertically and front to back )in the soundstage. So far ARCs description of the improvements appear to be right on the money as the CD8 should be even better (hard to imagine) in this regard.

My CD8 is now spinning the Purist Audio Design System Enhancer in repeat mode and I will wait at less 24 hours before listening to it. I just measured it and did a spectral analysis to be sure everything was correct and comparing it to the CD7 could find that the CD8 output level is 3.5dB lower, as I confirmed later from the respective manuals.
When comparing these units one must carefully match the volume, otherwise the CD7 is much louder!

How that translates into volts ?

BTW - 24h is prolly not enough. It took my CD-7 400h of continuos play to fully break-in.

The CD8 output is 1.8V RMS RCA and 3.6V RMS XLR .
The CD7 is 2.7 and 5.4V RMS respectively.

I am using the Purist Audio Design System Enhancer CD for break-in, so I hope that after 100 hours the CD8 will be listenable. I went through two CD7s and I still remember how disappointed I was when I replaced one with more than 1000 hours play by one taken from the box.

My perception after a few minutes listening is that the CD-8 is more detailed and has better bass definition - air moves faster - the fly at track 10 minute4'44'of Paniagua LaFolia is clearly heard!

What I've Learned: I spoke with Leonard at AR and asked him if this upgrade is a sonic improvement. He advised that it addresses a specific issue: if the existing two tubes in the power supply drift apart in their values this can cause noise. By going to a single tube instead of two tubes, this is eliminated. Because AR is covering this at no charge, I would imagine that they see this as correcting a problem.

The two 6h30 problem drift was solved with an upgrade kit that was fitted by my distributor free of charge, after I noticed some hum in the CD output when used in single ended mode. This was traced to a defective 6h30, but after this upgrade I had no more problems. Before parting with the old CD7 I checked the tubes - after 2500 hours they still measured as new.
Although the CD8 is still burning-in, one thing is sure - bass is better articulated and more controlled. Three walls in my room are 2 feet wide solid stone and there is almost no bass absorption. As I am currently using Soundab A1PXs, bass performance is critical and the difference between the two players is easily noticed.

For those who made the CD7 upgrade. Mine was already upgraded with a board on top of the two 6H30s slots. I had to change 4 resistors on the board, add one, put the board and installed two new 6h30.

I heard the 5881 upgrade the tube is puted horizontally. Does it have a new board on top of the 6h30 slots to hold the 5881? Can someone send me some pics? I'm not in the US so i have to see if it can be done on field.

I just recieved my CD-7 back from ARC with the upgrade. Will was right on in his assessment.

I only had time to listen to a few "cuts" before I had to leave, so anything I say here was with less than an hour on the player. Its operating on "repeat" until I get home tonight.

The improvement is NOT subtle at all ... in fact, from my limited time listening today, what occured to me was ... this is like going from a mid-grade Grado cartridge to a very good moving coil. In comparison, inner-detail is much improved, like hearing around the notes of a classical guitar. Dynamics are much more explosive ... try the Jessica Williams "Live at Yoshi's" piano trio, both Vol-I and Vol-II. Amazing.

My contact at ARC tells me that the modded CD-7 gets you about one-quarter to one-forth of the way to a CD-8. All I can say is, the CD-8 must be something speciall indeed.

I'd recommend the upgrade mod to anyone who has a stock CD-7. Original owners get the mod for free.

Take care guys and happy listening.

I also got my CD 7 back from ARC a few days ago. If you read WSILL and OREGONPAPA's comments they have hit it right on the "head" with the new performance achieved. It really is a new listening experience. I highly recommend any original owners to upgrade their players. The turn around time was only two weeks. Great service from a great company. The only thing I can't figure out is why they didn't include a power off button on the remote like the Ref 3 has??? I wish I could turn it off from my chair. Does the CD 8 include one on that remote?

Great to hear that the CD-7 upgrades gives a nice sonic improvement. I'll be sending mine in soon.

To continue ...

I had two friends over to hear the upgraded CD-7. To say that I had to pry their jaws off of the carpet is an understatement. Both are very familiar with my system. One arrived late, and as he walked into the room and after hearing only a couple of notes, he immediatly said: "Now there's a tweak that is amazing!" I put on the Bach Tocata on the EMI Classic disc and that's when the jaws hit the floor, mine included. Does this revamped player play bass? In a word ... YES! I put on another disc on the Brainbridge label, Stephen Kates on cello. None of my previous players; CD-III, CD-IIImk-2, or the stock CD-7 could handle the lower register of the cello on this disc. They simply crapped out. The modded CD-7 not only handled the low notes, it put them right through my chest! I'm still in disbelief over it. I had always thought the amp was running out of power on this disc, even though I have 100 watts and 94db efficient speakers. Looks like the majority of CD players just aren't up to the job on these Brainbridge CDs. Same thing with the lower registers of a well recorded piano. I have some simply miked piano recorded at local concerts ... and let me tell you, THIS is a piano! A piano right in the room!

This is like having an entirely new CD collection. Now I'm thinking ... Do I dare sell this player and get the CD-8? I'm kind of thinking, if, as my contact at ARC says, the modded CD-7 gets you 25% of the way to the CD-8, and I get the CD-8, will I ever leave the house again? Will I sell all of my thousands of records, dump the turntable and phono-stage ... and just be done with the whole vinyl thing?

Save me! I'm lost!

Man, that's good news. I'm excited about the better bass that the CD-7 update apparently provides!

Well guys I see most of you dont know the full history of these. ARC is trying to correct the PS problem in the CD7 for the last two years. What you are seeing is not an upgrade, but a fix.

Mine original CD7 was sttuning, live music, belive me. After sometime when I tested an SE pre-amp I noticed a hum. ARC send a kit (still in my player), a revision: 4 resistors were replaced on the side of the 6H30s and one added, a board was puted over the two sockets and two new 6H30s installed on this board. The sound of the CD7 moded by ARC this way never got close to the original, no life.

I hope this new kit (5881 tube) is all you are talking about. If not most of you only fixed a bad project problem. Note that the hum can only be heard in SE output.

Ossocao-

Thanks for your perspective. I was plaining to send in my CD-7 for the PS update today, but now I'm not so sure whether to do this or not... Most people on this Board have said that the PS update improves sound, especially bass, but you clearly say otherwise. Should I go forward with the PS update?? I don't want to do this if it will make my sound worse!!

Ossocao,

Do you suggest it is not wise to upgrade the CD7, because sound quality suffers from it ?

Ossocao is talking about an earlier upgrade, which came preinstalled on all players sold from some point in 2007 upwards.

What I´m saying is not about last update, I did not installed the 5881 update yet.

I´m saying that mine CD7 have the last update before this one and the player sound better when it was new (before having the 6H30 problem).

I can´t say nothing about this upgrade I did not hear any CD7 with it yet. I´m hoping this will bring my original CD7 sound back. Also I think many guys here have the problem and dón´t know about it, so when the unit gets fixed they think it´s an sound upgrade, but maybe it´s only fixing the bad sound that goes out when one of the 6H30 drift from the other one.

I suggest everybody to do the mod. All cd7 will show the problem if one of the two 6h30 drift from each other. The use of only one tube avoid that. On the sonic side can´t say nothing, I did not bring mine for the last upgrade yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand the CD7 does not upsample (like 8X, etc) and uses the Crystal 24bit sigma-delta DAC.

Does the new CD8 upsample? and is the Burr Brown 24 bit DAC a ladder type or a sigma-delta? Does anyone know what Burr Brown DAC is used (PCM1704, etc)?

ARC does not believe in upsampling.

To say that I had to pry their jaws off of the carpet is an understatement.

How many times have I heard "jaw dropping" hype like this before? ARC churns out upgrades as fast as anybody.

AFAIK CD-8 uses the same DAC chip as CD-5.

This is like having an entirely new CD collection. Now I'm thinking ... Do I dare sell this player and get the CD-8? I'm kind of thinking, if, as my contact at ARC says, the modded CD-7 gets you 25% of the way to the CD-8, and I get the CD-8, will I ever leave the house again? Will I sell all of my thousands of records, dump the turntable and phono-stage ... and just be done with the whole vinyl thing?

Save me! I'm lost!
Oregonpapa

To me, CD8 is one of the best sounding one-box digital players, remarkably better than already very good CD7. I used to write my views for CD8 under this forum topic. I also wrote as "it reduced the gap between my analog and digital sources, it is that good." But I would not sell my analog equipment and my records for CD8. My analog source is still my reference in terms of getting maximum satistaction. In terms of soundstage, seperation of instruments, inner texture and timbre, air and definition of high frequencies, a good analog is still superior, but it is nice to hear newcomer digital sources are closing the gap.

CD8 is a CD7 with different chip and a fixed Power Supply. As ARC does not use the opition of upsampling this chipsets offer all you hear is a Brand difference when convertion occurs. I don't belive in great superiory.

Although it is still too early to have a definitive opinion - my CD8 has only around 250 hours continuous playing time with same breaks - it is now very different sounding from the CD7. The sound balance is different, the CD8 bass has better definition and resolution. During the last days the CD8 has become somewhat bright, sibilants seem enhanced. I hope that after burn in the tonal balance becomes fuller again!

Just got the CD-8 today.

Here are some inside images of the new design with 6550 tube in the PS:

Inside View 1
Inside View 2

The DAC chipset used is 24/192kHz capable PCM1792 from Burr-Brown:

Inside View 3

Now I'm gonna leave the player in a repeat mode 24/7 for the next 10 days or so before I start any listening. By then the player should already have around 240h of play time, although based on my expirience with CD-7, I reckon that it will need additional 200h to fully break in.

During the last days the CD8 has become somewhat bright, sibilants seem enhanced. I hope that after burn in the tonal balance becomes fuller again!

This is the same rollercoster I expirienced whan I was breaking in my old CD-7. The sound was changing from dull to bright and vice versa.

This is why I resisted the temptation to listen the the player fresh out of the box. Based on your expirience with CD-8, I may even extend the initial burn in from 10 days, to full 20 days. It will give me more time to play with the dCS Puccini I still have on loan.

Can someone tell me what the difference is between the 5881 and the 6550 tube besides the size of them? How come ARC didn't put the 6550 in the the CD 7 upgrade? Doesn't the 6550 give superior bass definition? Thanks

I think 6550 is more powerful than a 5881 (that is a smaller version of the 6L6), This tubes are being used in the PS so they are not in the path of sound, but as a part in the PS. As long as there is enough power for the audio circuits I don't think they will make any change in the sound result. But the malfunction of then (like what was happening with the two 6H30) will affect sound.

Many people here saying CD8 is better than CD7, but how manny of them had a PS CD7 fault and don't know about it. What people is saying is that a CD7 with the last update and CD8 the difference in sound is not big.

Many people here saying CD8 is better than CD7, but how manny of them had a PS CD7 fault and don't know about it.

I'm pretty sure my did not have this problem after ~ 800 hours (my came with the upgrade 6H30 board installed from the factory). Not long before I sold the player, I have put a brand new set of tubes (all 7), just to see how much the original tubes deteriorated with time, only to find out no real difference in sound quality between the two sets.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the CD-7 was one of the best, if not THE best CDP I have owned so far - both sound quality and reliability wise.

I found the minet CD7 sometimes lifeless and sound diffrent each time I turn it on, only after 3-4 hour of use the sound goes better. The sound is very far far away from the one when he came out from from box prior to the upgrade. Let's see if I will get my sound back after this new upgrade.

Nice pix of the inside of the player. But I'm compelled to say that I am a bit underwhelmed at the layout of the PCB inside the CD8. I know that sound is the ultimate goal and I don't mean to dis your nice player. It's just that the tube analog section doesn't seem isolated from both the PS sections or digital sections. Is the analog section that robust? And the position of the large rectifier tube seems a bit odd. I wonder how the wires are routed underneath the PCB- going all the way across the PCB from the 120VAC Tranformer to the rectifier tube. I have and appreciate my ARC gear so don't take me as being mean spirited. Others with more electronics knowledge than me may have some ideas for some quick and easy tweaks for your player.

Anyone cares to post images of his upgraded CD-7 ? I wonder how the managed to fit the 5881 tube inside the CD-7, which has a bit different PCB layout.

hello Tonywinsc , let us make one thing clear , the big tube is NOT a rectifier tube and also the 6h30 tube in the powersupply . The are used as stabilisation . From 120V AC transformer current is rectified by solid rectifiers . So there will be no long wires under the board. Same as the upgrade of the CD7 .

But I'm compelled to say that I am a bit underwhelmed at the layout of the PCB inside the CD8. I know that sound is the ultimate goal and I don't mean to dis your nice player. It's just that the tube analog section doesn't seem isolated from both the PS sections or digital sections.

The DAC chip is not a problem. In most players it is placed very close to the analog stage. The "dirty part" is the display, transport and its servo board, and those are situated as far as possible from the analog section for an integrated player. 6550 tube, as noted before, in not a rectifier tube. ARC had to stuff a lot of parts inside the box, and taking that into consideration, they did a remarkable job.

Then why the bank of electrolytic capacitors next to the big tube?

Hello Tonywinsc , the electrolytic caps are needed to smooth the direct current after being alternate current to be changed by solid rectifiers .ARC always is famous by making very good powersections in their gear.Its the most important part of the design. You will notice there is no sign of humm in whatever gear of them.

I just sent my CD7 away for the upgrade. I think my player had the previous "lifeless" upgrade that was referred to above where a raised board was installed to hold the two 6H30 tubes. Perhaps a version 2 from the original. If this is the case, I cannot wait to hear the latest version and the associated improvements on an already great player. I will post my findings when it returns. Better sound and more reliable? Who could ask for more from a great company like Audio Research. I, for one, say continuous improvement is a good thing....

Mbudinich, my player has the same kit of yours. Did notice something too: I have days that the player sound great in other lifeless. Does the same happened with you?

Ossocao, I don't think I have experienced days where the cd player sounded better than others or any inconsistencies. Perhaps there is something else wrong with th player or elsewhere in the audio chain. Have you received your upgraded player? Has this corrected the issue?

Hi,
I have fitted myself the two tube upgrade kit to my old CD7 and did not find it deteriorated the sound - truth is it did not change, compared to a good set of matched 6h30.
Later a close friend also had it fitted to his player by the distributor and considered it an improvement. As he was listening to an unit with defective 6h30s in the power supply immediately before it is not a good case.

Owners using RCA units immediately noticed the hum noise when the tubes were not matched, people using the XLR output only noticed a much poorer sound.

My CD8 is still burning in ...

Can anyone post pics of the upgraded CD-7 with 5881 tube installed ?

C'mon, don't be lazy ! Support audio community !

I have already done my part and posted images of the CD-8 ...

I have internal pictures of my CD7 as modified by Audio Research with the 5881 tube. I toook these when I receivced my CD7 back from ARC.I have already emailed them to a few folks here.
Who else would like a picture? Send me an email I'll forward off to you.
Bill

My CD8 has been now been playing almost continuously for 22 days approaching 500 hours. Happy to tell that after burn in the bright, sometimes almost edgy sound is completely gone.
During the burn in phase I had to remove the Valhalla cables from my system as they exacerbated the sibilants and splashiness, but today I could use them again.
One thing is sure - the bass control and depth are improved and it is more detailed than my previous CD7.
I will wait a few days more before borrowing my old CD7 to make a direct comparison.

Here is a pic of an upgraded CD-7 I got from a fellow member from Sweden:

Inside image CD-7 with 5881

I had the oppportunity to listen to the CD8 today at a dealers store with all the other ARC Ref. gear hooked up with it along with the Wilson Maxx Series 3 Speakers.Its been a long time since I sat down to listen to the latest ARC gear and with this set up I thought I was in audio nirvana heaven. I brought a special cut CD of Firebird Suite 1919 from a 96k 24 bit HD Track and I was spellbownd
at the utter bass slam and powerful dynamics of everything.The sound stage stayed stable at FFFF on the final cords of the piece.The images were layered perfectly
and the space occupying the overtones were so there.
I played the Riverdance sound track and I could feel the weight and the character of the stage the dancers were stomping on. A first in my life and I always thought when I went to see the live performance of them that no stereo in the world would be able to reproduce this. Well I was wrong. I can go on and on about what I liked,But my only question is .Is this from a combination of the entire system playing or just the REF.CD8?

76doublebass,
Can you tell us what cables and amplifier were being used in this system?
My CD8 is now approaching the target of 600 hours burn in. As soon as it stabilizes I will compare it to the old CD7.