Balanced and single-ended (RCA) operations are inherently incompatible.
So if RCAs are used its not balanced, and if the XLR outputs are used
(and the preamp is properly balanced) then the use of the RCA
connections will result in a buzz.
IOW its one or the other and never both, unless additional active circuitry is used.
The gain has nothing to do with it whatsoever. That is saying that to make something sound better, you just make it louder.
@atmasphere
Are you able to expand on this further? I get buzzing if I use 2 sets of RCA cables with my standalone Phono stage. i.e. if I run RCA's from turntable into Phono and then I run RCA's into PreAmp I get buzzing. If I run Phono direct to Power Amps (phono has vol. control), no buzzing. Same if I go direct to Pre-Amp with inbuilt Phono no buzzing, but go standalone Phono into same Pre-Amp I get buzzing, so it appears two sets of RCA's from Phono sets off buzzing.
THEN (initforthemusic) if I use the XLR>RCA adaptors from the RCA output of the Krell preamp to the PrimaLuna amp's RCA inputs will all be OK? I am using ;balanced cables. Thanks upfront to all who help, Dave
I get buzzing if I use 2 sets of RCA cables with my standalone Phono
stage. i.e. if I run RCA's from turntable into Phono and then I run
RCA's into PreAmp I get buzzing. If I run Phono direct to Power Amps
(phono has vol. control), no buzzing. Same if I go direct to Pre-Amp
with inbuilt Phono no buzzing, but go standalone Phono into same Pre-Amp
I get buzzing, so it appears two sets of RCA's from Phono sets off
buzzing.
@initforthemusic This sounds like you may have a ground loop between the phono preamp and the line stage. This is usually caused by poor circuit grounding practice.
To test for this, try installing a ground cheater adapter, which you can get at the hardware store, and use it to lift the power cord ground connection on first the phono section, and then also try the power cord ground connection on the line stage. My guess is the phono stage will be the culprit.
Please note that you should not run the system this way as such can be a shock or fire hazard should things go wrong. This is just for test.
if I use the XLR>RCA adaptors from the RCA output of the Krell preamp to the PrimaLuna amp's RCA inputs will all be OK?
Maybe. I would talk to Krell about this, otherwise if in doubt use a Jensen transformer as suggested.
@atmasphere Thank you for taking the time. I must also add I have tried the ground cable from T/T on Pre-Amp, when using standalone Phono. So if Cheater Plug works what is the procedure then?
Recording studio’s and recording engineer’s could care less about hypo/cryo nonsense. I find it amazing that we all buy our vinyl and CD’s from companies whose master tape CD’s and master tape vinyl sound fabulous and guess what, just about all of these studio’s are using budget wire from Belden, Canare and Mogami for recording and mixing. Audiophiles love to speculate that they are more "technically" proficient and superior to well educated recording engineers and the recording industry, since they got their education from high end magazines, but the reality is Audiophiles live in denial and most do not have the technical education on the level of the best recording engineers and studios. Give me a break.
There are recording studios, recording engineers, mastering engineers, etc... who really go out of their way to use premium cables in their studios. Audiophile approved cables and gear.
The post is way over the top in projected falsehoods: cast and directed scorn, vitriol, and denigration, combined with unsubtle blunt force trauma delivered appeals to authority.
Well, let’s be honest. Recording engineers get what, about two years of training? I wouldn’t necessarily call it an engineering education since they actually don’t take any of the real important and difficult engineering and science courses, you know, like dynamics or even statics, or thermodynamics, or nuclear engineering. Besides, isn’t it the recording engineers that have been aggressively compressing our favorite tunes for the last 20 years, with no let up in sight? Thanks a bunch, guys!
I must also add I have tried the ground cable from T/T on Pre-Amp, when using standalone Phono. So if Cheater Plug works what is the procedure then?
An isolation power transformer might be used so as to isolate the grounds. Or you could send it back to the manufacturer and see if he can fix it. Hint: if you can measure the resistance between the chassis and the ground side of the RCA connectors and its about 1 ohm or less, then it is vulnerable to ground loop issues.
There are recording studios, recording engineers, mastering engineers, etc... who really go out of their way to use premium cables in their studios. Audiophile approved cables and gear.
There are, but as many recording engineers (many of whom do have a 4-year degree or more) know, if the balanced standard (AES file 48) is observed in the studio, there is no need for ’audiophile approved’ cables as Mogami, Canare and Belden cables will indeed work just fine, and by that I mean won’t sound any different then audiophile cables that cost $1000/foot.
Again, if you are hearing big differences between balanced line cables, what that means is your equipment is somehow failing to support the balanced standard.
The post is way over the top in projected falsehoods: cast and directed scorn, vitriol, and denigration, combined with unsubtle blunt force trauma delivered appeals to authority.
Actually the post to which you refer is pretty truthful whether we audiophiles like it or not. I straddle both sides of this issue, as I simultaneously operate a high end audio company where we routinely see cables making a difference (as I have previously harped, we see both balanced and single-ended operation with our gear) and I also run a recording studio complete with LP mastering capacity. In that studio we are careful to make sure that we do things that will result in good sound, but that does not include high end cables (don’t think we’ve not tried) as such is completely unnecessary if the balanced line standards are observed. This is a very easy thing to do in the studio, as the equipment designed for it observes AES file 48. So the sonic problems we encounter aren’t cable related- they are equipment related and usually pretty easy to spot.
I also agree that far too much compression is used! We had a guest engineer in our studio ruin a session because he over-used a compressor. Yuk.
Just to clarify, even if there are some recording engineers with 4 year educations they are not equivalent to 4 year science or engineering educations, you know, like BA Physics or Aerospace Engineering or Engineering Physics or EE. That would be expecting a little too much, no? In any case, my point is that whatever education a recording engineer has doesn’t automatically bestow on him the right to win every argument even if the argument is right up his bowling alley.
Actually EEs are not that rare in the recording world. There also those that are entirely by gosh and by golly. But like any field, they also attend the school of hard knocks. So its unwise to assume that without an education that they also don't know what they are doing.
Besides, isn’t it the recording engineers that have been aggressively compressing our favorite tunes for the last 20 years, with no let up in sight? Thanks a bunch!
Mr. Kait,
The producers, record labels or whoever puts up the money calls the shots on how and what the recording is going to sound like so why all the ill will directed towards sound engineers?
I wouldn’t necessarily call it an engineering education since they actually don’t take any of the real difficult engineering and science course, you know, like dynamics or even statics, or thermodynamics, or nuclear engineering.
You always forget the obvious; Music is an Art Form where people with TALENT in the Music Industry do not necessarily require a degree in the aforementioned science related fields in order to succeed. I never met a nuclear engineer working a recording desk or toured sound with an expert in thermodynamics but I am willing to bet, most of them listen and enjoy music.
Just to clarify, even if there are some recording engineers with 4 year educations they are not equivalent to 4 year science or engineering educations
That statement makes absolutely zero sense. It appears you are trolling for someone to fruitlessly argue with over meaningless lesser educated opinions.
In any case, my point is that whatever education a recording engineer has doesn’t automatically bestow on him the right to win every argument even if the argument is right up his bowling alley.
OK, now I am lost… where or who is the recording engineer and what is he or she arguing about?
In defense of sound engineers, no one is ever too old to start a career in the recording sciences. Mr. Kait, with your aerospace degree I am thinking that mixing music, repairing and troubleshooting a ghost issue across a 72 channel recording console while taking orders from a producer should be “oh so easy”, after all according to these statements you personally already have a higher degree of education than that of a sound engineer - correct?
You above all others should show more respect for the people who work in the Recording Industry. You are always touting, marketing and retailing your ‘audio wares’ while making a living off the backs of those lesser educated sound engineers - are you not?
Had my Purist cables re terminated to balanced from single ended they use wonderful sounding XLRs.The sound get quieter and cleaner also louder as well big improvement in my system.
Robert from Star Sound, you have either intentionally or deliberately misrepresented what I said. As usual with your choleric rants spiced up with bizarre personal vendetta inspired diatribes it’s difficult to say which.
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