Are you using the same cartridge? One suggestion. Take the table off the Vibraplane and see how it sounds. Some tables will sound worse when over damped by isolation devices. I have a Basis 1400 and it just sits on a shelf on my rack. Bass is great.
Alan |
I recall having a similar reaction when switching from VPI to Basis. They are very different sounding tables. Though I wouldn't say my reaction to the Basis bass was horrible, no balls. I do recall thinking to myself "what happened to the bass?" After extended listening, I realized that the bass was still there with the Basis, but it was tighter and better defined. The VPI's bass is full and warm, which some may prefer, but after listening to the Basis it can sound wooly and bloated with certain gear. As with all things in this hobby, it's all about synergy.
However, looking at the rest of your system, you may now be too far in the direction of speed and resolution. Since the Basis is much faster and higher resolution than the VPI table, when mated with ARC electronics and Nordost cables, also both noted for high speed and resolution, perhaps you have now passed the tipping point in system synergy. Fast table + Fast electronics + fast cables = too much speed, not enough musicality. Perhaps in your system, you may be better off with a VPI table.
What cartridge are you using? Perhaps a wood body Benz or a Koetsu would sound better with the Basis, and/or perhaps a Purist Audio phono cable.
Also a good suggestion by Arh to take the table off the Vibraplane. |
Yes, the Vibraplane overdamping crossed my mind. I had also considered the "tipping point " theory. I'm using a Dynavector XV1-S.
JMC, how would I incorporate the Purist Audio Cable as the Vector 4 tonearm seems to have the cable mated from cart to RCA's?
I did dial in the tonearm and cart a bit more yesterday. Dropped the VTF from the 2g point that worked well with the VPI and went, upon advice from a Basis dealer, to 1.89g, pretty specific :) He also suggested dropping the back of the armtube down 1mm below the level at which it enters the headshell. This also seemed to help. And yes, I'm also noticing so much more refinement , certainly in the highs and mids that my ears may be just getting used the a different sound. What I thought of as balls and slam may have been bloat and fluff. Although the VPI is a good table, the improvements with the Basis, where I hear them, are not subtle, which leaves me feeling that awesome bass is there as well and I just have to uncover it.
Lastly, I've added a bit of damping weight to the Vibraplane, just 15pounds to start, and that seems to have helped too.
Thanks again! |
It's sometimes difficult when you change out a source component, as everything in your collection may sound "different". It just takes some getting used to. Listen for a few months and stop screwing around for now. IMO, the Basis has a much more "master-tape" sound than my previous Linn, which did take a bit of time to appreciate. Listen for the lack of artificial resonance and the true portrayal of the source. Then again, you may just prefer the VPI, which is fine. That's just the chance you take buying without audition. You save a lot of money, but you take a gamble. The good part is - you can probably sell at little or no loss. Or perhaps even a small profit, now that it's been blessed by AJ. But do give it some time. Best of luck. |
01-26-14: Moryoga
Yes, the Vibraplane overdamping crossed my mind. I had also considered the "tipping point " theory. I'm using a Dynavector XV1-S.
JMC, how would I incorporate the Purist Audio Cable as the Vector 4 tonearm seems to have the cable mated from cart to RCA's? Never mind, I forgot about the Vector tone arm's integrated interconnect cable. The Dynavector's are also well know for their speed and resolution, which is why so many recommend Dynavector and Lyra cartridges for VPI tables. The speed and resolution of these cartridges balance well with the fullness and warmth of the VPI tables/arms. I ran a Dynavector XV-1s on my Basis 2500 Signature with Vector 3 arm, and enjoyed it very much, though I was not using ARC electronics or Nordost cables, as I find them a bit too bright for my tastes. I did prefer the sound of the ZYX UNIverse and 4D over the Dynavector XV-1s on my Basis though. Keep tweaking and listening and I'm sure that eventually you will appreciate the extra resolution and refinement that the Basis presents over the VPI. Cheers, John |
Maybe it is a help to catch the "problem" from a different view. Just an example with cartridges, here Koetsu. These are midrange pushers, that means, low performance in Bass and Highs. when someone likes that for whatever reason, then it is the way for him. He will always miss this "golden midrange" when he buys different, or even better cartridges. Or his Table/Arm/Phonostage is loaded with vibrations (platte, bearing, belt), distortions (the result from that) or whatever and this cartridge can compensate or hide it successfully.
When going to a better combination it is possible that these components will show what the Koetsu really is .... but there are similar carts out there ... that is just an example.
Same with Turntables, a good analog reproduction has a lot to do with Precision and - forgive me - VPI is mediocre at best. I listened to a few and I think, the dominant Bass is linked with a limited Soundstage and average high frequency detail. That's the "sonic fingerprint". Maybe I am wrong, but I recommend to use a few better records (try some from the 60's-70's), it can be possible, that these will tell you something new. A good table is never dominant in one area, it has no bass, high, speed... these are attributes from inferior design. A good table will show you what is in the groove, 1:1, the emotion comes from the Software, not from the Hardware.
The Vibraplane has no influence to that, that one stretches the soundstage in all directions and will serve you a better image in high frequency detail. |
Just one more thing - I'm not very familiar with Vibraplanes, but I do believe they use an air bladder suspension. Linn always cautioned about placing a spring-suspended table on anything that contained a suspension because the two suspensions could interact and oscillate. You should speak with AJ about this, but if this is happening, there could be reinforcement of certain frequencies and cancellation of others. Maybe you should just let the 2200 stand on its own 4 feet or the Calibrator if you have it. |
Of course the Vibraplane will interfere with other spring systems like a car going down the road with two sets of shock absorbers one above the other. The ride would be very bumby. Without an interfering set of springs on the turntable the Vibraplane prevents structureborne vibrations from interfering with the platter, tonearm and cartridge, which resonate around 10 Hz. |
Thanks for your feedback. Everything seems to be coming together. Between fine adjusting the cart and arm and mass loading the Vibraplane, bass is coming nicely into focus. I think I just panicked there for a minute. This is clearly a superior table to anything I've owned. I'm hearing things I've never heard before. I almost jumped out of my seat when I thought a neighbor was knocking but it was a giant soundstage sonic illusion. I've done several A/B with and without the Vibraplane and in this set up it's a definite asset. Bigger soundstage, tighter bass, more clarity and separation. Thanks again! |
Great to hear Moryoga! I have the same table and can't imagine it not exceeding your expectations! Good luck! |
Congratulation on your new table, I own a 2500 !!!!! I want to mention the Walker speed controller as a future upgrade possibility, plus some type of calibration device. The improvement was immediately apparent, I owned a VPI controller and the Walker was a substantial improvement, they show up here for $900-$1300.
Sam |
You should also try to mass load the Vibraplane such that the system is supporting around 225 lbs (including the turntable). The Vibraplane is most effective (and sounds the best) when loaded close to its theoretical load maximum. |
Even if you are using the same cartridge, it is VERY difficult to get identical settings when switching to a new arm/table. Small changes can have very large sonic consequences. Even a tiny VTA change will affect the apparent balance between bass and the upper end. Try adjusting VTA. Generally speaking, as one lowers the arm, bass becomes more prominent. |
I agree with Pops the Basis table and arm are very nuetral not in a amusical way. I use to own the VPI Aries before the Basis and the VPI never had that wide open soundstage. The bass was powerful, but did not have the texture. The Basis allows you to hear the differences in the different drum kits and their skins. I listened to a lot of cartridges on the Basis including most Koetsu, Benz, Clearaudio, and Vandenhul. I like the ZYX the best. I'm lucky to be able to own and use AJ's new Superarm 9 and let me tell you that was a game changer. |
Spent 4 hours in sonic bliss yesterday. Wife was out and it was really cold outside so...
I'm sure there's still a couple of micro adjustments that can be made but I think I'm almost there.
Spoke with A.J. and he said that while his Dampeners filter out 96+% of vibrations, he confirmed that Vibraplanes are the real deal and can have no negative impact on sound.
Very sorry that if the tone of the original posting gave the impression that there was anything wrong with the 2200. I was virtually positive it was my set up but I didn't communicate very well. Thanks for the great feedback and good listening! |
