bat vk 60 vs rogue mono 120s

Ok. One last attempt here to get my point across and then I will be quiet. Regardless of how nice people are if you bought an amp for say $4500 and then 3 to 5 years later they had an upgrade for the amp. You inquired about it, and they told you it would cost you $4750 to upgrade it. What would you think? There is something called customer loyalty and I don't think that this sort of pricing model exhibits customer loyalty. This sort of mentality is more the norm when we are talking about business machines that you depreciate and make money with. These are toys. I am sorry but this just hit a nerve with me. I could be all wet here. Ok I am done. I will go on my way with my Rogue Kora combo. Both are excellent values and can be had for about the same price as the VK60 SE upgrade.

I must say that these attacks on BAT are a bit much. One buys an amp from a manufacturer that one thinks sounds great(why else would one buy it?), and then the manufacturer sees fit to upgrade. So what? That manufacturer isn't forcing you to pay for that upgrade. Those who have a gripe here, are those who feel somehow left out or cheated if they don't have the latest and the greatest. I am now auditioning a pair of early production VK60s and while I don't think them perfect, I do think they are excellent sounding amps by any measure. As far as the BAT v Rogue comparison is concerned. I auditioned a pair of Rogue 120s in my system last year and they were pretty good, but in my opinion not in the same league as the BATs. In fairness, the Rogues are alot less money though. It is entirely possible however that someone else, with a different system may prefer the Rogues. Different strokes. Oh, I also own a BAT D5, have for two years now, so I'm quite familiar with their customer service which I've found to be quite good.

Some clarification:
I know both Mark O'Brien and Victor khomenko personally, and I am not comparing their personality or moral character, but as engineers who are measured by their success with their product. I am in a position to make a comment, especially one which relates to the fruits of their labors...namely, these amps. Next, I have owned two pair of Rogue M120s, the VK 500, VK 60, Used in the same system, with a Wadia front end, Aerial, Martin Logan and Magnapan speakers and all Nordost SPM and Quattro fil...I can tell you the differences. Yes, the BAT is more money, but you get what you pay for and in the case of BAT, that means excellent customer support, new tubes overnight, a great warranty and a low failure rate throughout the life of the product and the product line. When was the last time you checked with Madrigal Labs for a Levinson upgrade? How about Krell? Jeff Rowland?...Think about it: a ten year old piece of gear which you have derived much pleasure from, can be upgraded, not become obsolete, outdated, discontinued... The original Wadia D/A processor can still be brought up to current spec. Yes there is a cost, yes, it's expensive, but THIS is customer loyalty AND manufacturer loyalty if a piece of gear is still owned ten years from now, and the upgrades are still offered and the listener is still satisfied. Apples to apples, the VK 60 Monoblocks absolutely kill the M120's in every area of performance. Yes, the cost difference is great but only you, the listener, can decide if the sonic rewards merit the additional expense. Bottom line: whatever you do, audition BAT in addition to your other choices...you will like what you hear!

Sterling. I agree with you for the most part. The bat amps I have owned and heard are good. I have not had a chance to listen to the Rogue 120's to compare. The cost of the upgrade just miffed me a bit. I am now on a Kora Electronic Concept wagon as far as amps go. I am using the newer 50 watt Galaxy. I hope to add a second soon and strap them mono. I guess I would go as far as to say that it KILLS the Bat Vk-60. The reason I chose to answer the gentlemens question was because I have rolled many preamps over the last year and have found none that can touch Mark "O's Rogue 99 preamp. The finish is not as trick as the bat's I have had but it sounds like no other in my system. I saw this as an opportunity to praise Rogue and vent my dislike for companies like BAT that out source most of their products build up and then design revision after revision and gouge the customer that wants the update.

BTW Mark O' is building me a special phono board for the 99 I have and I told him in jest that he is "No Victor Komhenko". He laughed pretty hard so I don't think he will loose any sleep over it.

I do apologize to those guano lovers that I have offended.

Hello Cat, The point I think that is being misunderstood here is that the bat vk60se is not just an upgrade "it's a totally new product". I feel that bat is going out of their way for its previous loyal vk60 owners by offering the vk60se. Otherwise they would have to buy the 75se or the 150se at an even larger cost to keep up with the best bat has to offer. I don't think they should be begrudged for trying to do a good thing if anything they should be praised. You don't see ARC offering an upgrade for the VT200 to the REF series amps? But they do have ongoing upgrades to mk1, mk2, mk3 and each time the retail price goes up and up. This is something bat didn't do, the retail price stayed the same as far as I know from the beginning. They didn't announce a vk60mk1, vk602, or 3 as the years went by to make people feel like they needed to have the latest update. I hope this brings clarity to the viewpoint Sterling and I are trying to get across. I'm not offended if you like another design over the bat as no two people hear it the same way. I do feel think that you are way way of base by saying that bat is taking advantage of people by price gouging. Sonically they have repeatedly beat out competitors products costing up to and over twice as much to my ears. I urge people to make comparisons for themselves and trust their own ears. Regards, Tom