Best Phono Pre for Teres

Hey Bebop, I have seen the Io, non-signature version with one power supply sell here from time to time in the $3000-3500 range. I own this model and with the stock tubes replaced, it is phenomenol; my gut feeling is that it is more impressive than the stock Io Signature. The Io Signature sells from $5-8k on the used market depending on whether or not it has volume controls, 2 power supplies or fully decked out with NOS tubes. So keep your eyes open for deals here.

I also agree that the phono stage is very important in the system due to the need for an accurate RIAA circuit and amplifying a very low signal. However, we can talk theories all day long. My experiences from listening to, borrowing and owning some great preamps, line stages and phono stages, time and time again, the line stage makes a far more significant "make or break" musicality presence in my system. I can go back to a previous phono stage that I owned such as the BAT P10 or ARC PH2, or even the built-in phono board I used to have in my BAT 31SE, and the music is still quite impressive. These phono stages do not have the awesome 3-dimensionality of the Io, but still the music is very enjoyable. I can not say this at all about any solid-state line stage I have heard in my system....and several tube line stages too. The space around the instruments and decay of notes is flat out gone in so many of these other cases. Why this is I don't know and I would not have believed it until I heard it.

I would have bet everything on the fact that the phono stage and its associated cabling makes the bigger impact on the system due to it amplifying the smallest signal. But it just has not been the case for me. Two preamps, 4 phono stages and 4 line stages in 24 years and the outcome has been consistent.

And I will make the same claim about cables. The cable from line stage to amp is far more significant than the other ICs. Several years ago when I had just enough money to try out one NBS cable, I tried this vs. the Cardas Golden Cross, SilverAudio and 2 pairs of cheapo Belden XLR cables. The NBS was a huge improvement from line to amp and quite surprisingly, the Belden worked very well from phono stage to line. When I swapped the NBS and Belden, so much of the 3-dimensionality and harmonic richness that the system was capable of was significantly reduced. With the NBS back in the line-to-amp link, the magic was back. After this change, tonearm cable differences were far greater to appreciate as well. So again, I don't understand why, but there's something very signifcant about the line stage and the cable from it to the amp that has a greater effect on my system over the years than other links in the system. m. For SS based systems where harmonic richness, decay of notes and volume of space are not so prevalent, this all could be a non-issue. You just need to try this all out in your system and find what areas benefit the most from changes and what others benefit much less.

John

Thanks for all the responses- I already have a good line stage in the harmonix reimyo-I am looking for the right mate for a phono pre- any thoughts on using a Audio Note M7 which would give me a pre and a phono stage in one- Also anyone with exp. with the Audio Research Ref. phono stage??

Bebop,

I guess you didn't read my post on your thread.......... I have an Airy 3S w/silver base (.24mv) running into an ARC reference phono in my system. It sounds incredible. I am using Hovland MG II phono cables which are a big improvement over any others I have tried including: Nordost Quattro, Kimber, and Audience. The ARC actually has enough gain from it's MM input (which bypasses the internal x-former) for the Airy. It sounds a little better in this configuration to me (a bit more pure if you will, but it's really, really a small difference, and I like the MC input for some more powerful Rock stuff as it's a little more dynamic in the bottom).

I have not heard the IO or Manley, but I did borrow a Whest from a local dealer recently. I much preferred my ARC in almost every way. The Whest was quieter though.

Hope this helps, it sounds like you have a fun decision to make.......... It's a bitch trying to decide what top flight phono pre to get to go along with the rest of your rig......... which is one of the best.

Chris

Dear friends: Especially who cares about music/sound reproduction, not who cares about sound reproduction.

All of us put a lot of money ( thousands dollars ) and time ( overhang, VTA/SRA, VTF, Azynuth, vibration devices, cartridge/tonearm match, and the like. ) to extract all the MUSIC information that was recorded on any single LP: we take really high care about that, and for what? if latter that signal goes inside a tube device that destroy it!!!!! or even worse: inside a step-up transformer ( it does not matters if this SUT is an Expressive Technologies ) and then to an additional tube device stage. This does not have any common sense.

All of us know that a tube device generate his own harmonics: THAT DOES NOT EXIST ON THE ORIGINAL SIGNAL ( and other limitations, like: heavy degradation of the sound at the frecuency response extreme. ). So, what we are hearing through a tube device?: not even a picture but only a: bad CARICATURE. We need, at least, a good picture not a caricature. I know that many of you loves that caricature, but this is not the issue..

Somewhere, in the time, we have to analyze those things that happen with a tube device and that goes against the music/sound reproduction and try to do changes on our audio system for the better.

I know that almost all of you are in love with the tube devices for the phono preamp, I asking you why? if you love the music.

I'm not against the tube devices " per se ", it is only that is imposible to have a good all tube phono preamplifier because the physics laws do that the tube devices unfit for. No body can do nothing about.

If any of us wantt to have a great music/sound reproduction through a home audio system is a must to have the right tools to do it and only the right ones.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Jafox, I agree with your comments 100% regarding the relative importance of phono vs. line stages and interconnects. For whatever reason, the line stage just seems to put more of a stamp on the overall sound of the system than the phono stage. Likewise, I have found that the most critical interconnect is the one from the line stage to the power amp. Common sense says that the earlier cables, especially the tonearm cable, should have a greater effect since there is so much gain after that point. But facts are facts. The final interconnect always seems to have a greater impact---positive or negative.