Best Phono Pre for Teres

Gary, I will second John's (Jafox's) recommendation of the Aesthetix Rhea or the Aesthetix Io Signature if you only want to do this once. The Io Signature sells for $9000 new and they occasionally are sold used for around $5000. (The standard Io MkII sells for about $6500 new.) The Rhea sells for about $4000 new and around $2800 used.

The Io will provide 82db of gain through three all-tube gain stages. The Rhea delivers about 75db of gain. Sound quality is stunning, with commensurate sonic improvements moving from the Rhea to the standard Io MkII to the Io Signature.

You've made a very significant investment in your turntable, tonearm and cartridge. As others have suggested, the phono stage is really the most critical element in achieving the sound quality you're striving for: don't shortchange yourself at this point.

Best wishes in your analog journey!

Raul's recommendation for the Whest PS.20 is a good one - it's a new(ish) product which has been very well received by the audio press. Contrary to what Raul has posted, there is one REALLY good step up transformer available but it is nearly impossible to find and therefore quite expensive - the Expressive Technologies SU1.

If you use the Whest, you'll need to keep your line stage or find a better one. If you use the ET SU1, you'll need a MM phono stage + line stage too.

Anyhow... There are quite a few options available & I just struggled with a similar exercise myself so hopefully what I have to write will help you.

I too have the low output UNIverse cartridge.

The Aesthetix IO Signature is IMHO the best sounding phono stage I've used however it is huge and takes a lot of space plus requires - if I remember correctly - 22 tubes which all must be of the absolute highest quality and of particular brands / vintage for the IO to sound its best.
Unfortunately, the benefits of the IO are in my experience diminished by any line stage you pair it with. The Aesthetix volume control - while somewhat transparent sounding - tends to compress dynamics. I had bad luck with a passive Placette which also killed dynamics. You could try a transformer based volume control (bent or silver rock) but I think you will need the buffer provided by a line stage.

Suprateks are great options. I had one for many years and loved (still love) it. It represents a great value all-in-one solution which will have enough gain for the UNIverse. IMHO, aside from world class engineering and manufacture, the Supratek's only weakness is in ultimate transparency.

Audionote M6 - great solution - one box (with no external power supply) but does not have a MC phono and will therefore require a step up device. The Stevens & Billington step ups are IMHO the best commercially available devices (also represented by Bent Audio). They've produced a new step up box which can be seen here at Music First the consumer products division of S&B. Aside from the S&B, you could (as mentioned above) try an Expressive Technologies SU1 (good luck finding one). The Audio Note M6 is actually a great value in the AN line up. It can be EASILLY modified with better parts and AN-Vz wire throughout to increase performance & transparency. This will bring the unit closer to the M8.

I also looked at the LAMM LP2 + L2, Messenger Preamp, Audion Premier Quattro and CTC Blowtorch. All of which are good solutions but get a bit pricey & have their own undesirable quirks.

There really is no PERFECT preamp + phono that I know of.

All those things considered, I settled on the Manley Steelhead. In my system, it has enough gain for the UNIverse's .24Mv output - running through the MM inputs (which by-pass the step up device). Using the MC inputs produces a somewhat warmer / fuller sound (very subtle). It uses a stepped volume control and has a buffer / line stage built in so it can drive your amps directly. Another benefit is a line level input for your digital.

I have opened the box and see that there's about 6 inches of space behind the volume knob. This leads me to think the DACT Remote Kit will fit inside giving the Steelhead the convenience of remote control.

The Manley has two MC inputs and one MM input (and the line level input) so multiple arms / cartridges become an option for you down the road.

In a world where there is no perfect preamp, the Manley represents what I found to be a good one box solution.

The biggest downside of the Manley is how it looks. Actually, it looks better in real life than in photos but still could use an "extreme makeover".

As mentioned above (and by Raul) - the Whest phono stage is highly recommended by reviewers and has been compared favorably equal to the Manley. I think the Whest is $2,500 but unfortunately you'll need a line stage to go with it, additional interconnects and power cord too. Adding up the cost of the Whest + everything else you'll need to have first rate (do-it-once & do-it-right) performance will cost right up there with the other solutions.

Anyhow.. I hope this helps.

Hey Bebop, I have seen the Io, non-signature version with one power supply sell here from time to time in the $3000-3500 range. I own this model and with the stock tubes replaced, it is phenomenol; my gut feeling is that it is more impressive than the stock Io Signature. The Io Signature sells from $5-8k on the used market depending on whether or not it has volume controls, 2 power supplies or fully decked out with NOS tubes. So keep your eyes open for deals here.

I also agree that the phono stage is very important in the system due to the need for an accurate RIAA circuit and amplifying a very low signal. However, we can talk theories all day long. My experiences from listening to, borrowing and owning some great preamps, line stages and phono stages, time and time again, the line stage makes a far more significant "make or break" musicality presence in my system. I can go back to a previous phono stage that I owned such as the BAT P10 or ARC PH2, or even the built-in phono board I used to have in my BAT 31SE, and the music is still quite impressive. These phono stages do not have the awesome 3-dimensionality of the Io, but still the music is very enjoyable. I can not say this at all about any solid-state line stage I have heard in my system....and several tube line stages too. The space around the instruments and decay of notes is flat out gone in so many of these other cases. Why this is I don't know and I would not have believed it until I heard it.

I would have bet everything on the fact that the phono stage and its associated cabling makes the bigger impact on the system due to it amplifying the smallest signal. But it just has not been the case for me. Two preamps, 4 phono stages and 4 line stages in 24 years and the outcome has been consistent.

And I will make the same claim about cables. The cable from line stage to amp is far more significant than the other ICs. Several years ago when I had just enough money to try out one NBS cable, I tried this vs. the Cardas Golden Cross, SilverAudio and 2 pairs of cheapo Belden XLR cables. The NBS was a huge improvement from line to amp and quite surprisingly, the Belden worked very well from phono stage to line. When I swapped the NBS and Belden, so much of the 3-dimensionality and harmonic richness that the system was capable of was significantly reduced. With the NBS back in the line-to-amp link, the magic was back. After this change, tonearm cable differences were far greater to appreciate as well. So again, I don't understand why, but there's something very signifcant about the line stage and the cable from it to the amp that has a greater effect on my system over the years than other links in the system. m. For SS based systems where harmonic richness, decay of notes and volume of space are not so prevalent, this all could be a non-issue. You just need to try this all out in your system and find what areas benefit the most from changes and what others benefit much less.

John

Thanks for all the responses- I already have a good line stage in the harmonix reimyo-I am looking for the right mate for a phono pre- any thoughts on using a Audio Note M7 which would give me a pre and a phono stage in one- Also anyone with exp. with the Audio Research Ref. phono stage??

Bebop,

I guess you didn't read my post on your thread.......... I have an Airy 3S w/silver base (.24mv) running into an ARC reference phono in my system. It sounds incredible. I am using Hovland MG II phono cables which are a big improvement over any others I have tried including: Nordost Quattro, Kimber, and Audience. The ARC actually has enough gain from it's MM input (which bypasses the internal x-former) for the Airy. It sounds a little better in this configuration to me (a bit more pure if you will, but it's really, really a small difference, and I like the MC input for some more powerful Rock stuff as it's a little more dynamic in the bottom).

I have not heard the IO or Manley, but I did borrow a Whest from a local dealer recently. I much preferred my ARC in almost every way. The Whest was quieter though.

Hope this helps, it sounds like you have a fun decision to make.......... It's a bitch trying to decide what top flight phono pre to get to go along with the rest of your rig......... which is one of the best.

Chris