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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Johnk,
I 've made changes in my audio system that weren't always better but just different or a bit worse. I simply report what's heard and accept it for the reality it represents. Duelund CAST in my speaker and DAC were "significant" improvements on what was already very good sound.For me it's as clear cut as going from my former class AB SS amplifier to a class A SET amplifier. Unmistakable upgrade for me and no need to go back and forth(I knew the sound of both very well and the contrast was too profound to deny).
Charles,
tasouli
39 posts
 
Johnk

This discussion is all a bit academic. Are you looking for reassurance? If so, it's all in the previous pages of this blog.

For my own part, the kind of mods I've performed produced results that were night and day different. In terms of difference, I'd say my speakers sound like speakers worth three times the price. I have heard 30K speakers and I'm now very much in that territory. FAR less grain. FAR more natural. FAR more revealing. Bass that is by far better controlled than before.

I've had my speakers for 10 years. I just don't need to do an A/B to know what effect my mods have made. I could itemise the changes from memory with numerous reference tracks I have. There are some pieces of music I've listened to more than 80 times over the years on my setup.

I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post. Read this blog, learn what others have tried and do your own A/B comparisons if you want. There are some very bright and enquiring people who post on here. I, and I'm tipping most others on here, are way past the point of having to make sure we are making a positive differences and, yes, some people here have done their own A/B comparisons along the way. People here have been in touch with their equipment manufactures, technicians, their own guile and a huge amount of trial and error. I found this out by reading this, yes? Some stuff they tried worked brilliantly, some not so much. But the determinations are clear, for much less money than the cost of upgrading, you may be able to make significant gains in the performance of your system because of the work done by many people on here.

The differences that can be made are just too obvious. Too radical. Often, too much better to require "scientific" certainty.

For me, this experience has been like a badly asthmatic person using a, desperately required, inhaler. For me, it's been THAT obvious. So satisfying and good I wouldn't dream of undoing anything.

I am now in a position where my speakers are now so revealing that just about any change I make to my setup is highly perceptible. Almost radically so. Resonance control has now become incredibly important. I am in absolutely no doubt about whether a change to my setup/room is making a positive/negative/nil difference because the clarity and resolution I now have is streets ahead of what it ever was before. Ever.

For the record, in my speakers, I replaced, internal wiring, all capacitors, all resistors and all terminals.

By the way, I'm a trained scientist and opera singer. I know about scientific process and I have a deep love of music. (Just thought I'd throw that in here for added colour...lol)

Cheers, Tas
P.S ...I also love tennis, Australian rules football, Italian food, walking......lolol
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,975 posts
 
If you note I was one of the 1st in this thread. And I do find it a bit strange that a trained scientist would ignore the most basic tests and just trust subjective results. I still think if those who mod would approach it with more knowledge and and bit of skepticism. And maybe even compare results not rely on flawed acoustic memory and confirmation bias. This thread focuses on only one aspect of a loudspeaker and a loudspeaker is a whole and should be designed as such. Tossing crazy money at inferior transducers to me makes no sense at all. but I do know that it's futile to discuss this. People who post to these threads tend to seek agreement and ignore those who don't just say great job well done you rock. So I end my replies to this thread.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Johnk,
With all due respect, your recent posts make little sense. Of course the process is subjective, you hear something and judge it's quality of sound. Either it's an improvement or it isn't. People contributing to this thread have had sucess and failures with various components and modifications. I don't get the sense that we're here just to pat each other and ourselves on the back. Many of us aren't qualified to make radical or extensive modifications to our speakers. The fact that by changing a capacitor (relatively simple) can yield significant improvement in sound is noteworthy. I am happy to let others know of my pleasing outcome and that they can achieve similarly good results in their systems as well. That's a positive occurrence IMO.
Charles,
salectric
748 posts
 
I have to agree with a lot of what Johnk said. Too many people, including folks on this thread, get seduced by the "I modded it so it must be better" perspective. In all equipment, but especially with speaker crossovers, a "better" component may not actually result in better sound. There are too many other factors involved.

Consider another context. We all know that when we try different preamps or amps in our system, it is often easy to notice certain qualities that we think are improvements but it may take longer to notice failings. Well, the same thing occurs when swapping capacitors, chokes, resistors and wire in a speaker crossover. The new part will undoubtedly change the sound but is it really an improvement? Are there some negative qualities that go along with the positive ones? Often the negatives may seem minor at first but become major issues later on. It does indeed help to return to the unmodified version as a reality check. (I don't agree with making changes to one speaker and leaving the other stock but that was beaten to death earlier in this thread.)

Adding to the confusion is the breakin factor. Nearly all new component parts take time to reveal their true sonic character, so they can't be judged within minutes or even hours after being installed. My approach with crossover parts is to hook them up with a dummy load on another system and run them 24/7 with FM to let them break in prior to trying them in my speakers. Then, after I install them, I switch back and forth between the prior component and the new one every few days or so in order to get a real fix on how each of them sounds (in the context of my speaker). This takes a lot of time and I would not say it is always fun, but I don't know of any other way to evaluate parts objectively.

As an example, I have been trying Duelund CAST resistors in my speaker crossovers. These took a long time to reveal their true character. If I had only listened for a few hours, I would have said they were unacceptable---detailed and dynamic, but too wispy in the highs and lightweight in the bass. Yet after putting a lot more hours on them, I am now very pleased with how they sound. (Incidentally, the CAST resistor sounds nothing at like the regular Duelund resistor.)

So the bottom line is that you do have to go back and forth between parts to assess their true sonic qualities. Some people may be happy after installing a new capacitor and never look back. That's fine for them, and I am not critical of their experience if they are happy with the end result. But this approach won't work for all applications especially where the part being replaced is already of high quality. I would also add that swapping in a brand new component like a Duelund cap that takes a very long time to break in means that it will be difficult to state with any precision how it changed the sound since you are relying on memories from weeks or months earlier.

It should also be obvious that you can't change lots of parts all at one time and then try to say what changes were due to what part. This is one of the things that frustrates me so much about Jeff Day's long blog about his Tannoy Westminsters, but that is for another day.
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