I'm also obsessed with dht and deciding on a new preamp. I am considering upgrading from arc ls26 to a csls. Wondering if it is worth the upgrade.
Coincident Linestage vs CJ CT5 or Allnic L-3000
I currently own a Conrad Johnson CT5 but would like to upgrade and move to a preamp with XLR in/out. I have tested the Allnic L-3000 which I find very intersting, and I am also interested in the Coincident Statement linestage. Has anybody compared the Coincident to the CT5 or the Allnic?
265 responses Add your response
I've been obsessively reading about DHT preamps and just ran into this thread. It made me miss the "old" days of audiogon. An entire 6 page thread where people educate each other and cooperatively try and get the most beautiful music reproduction possible without fighting. It still happens every once in a while, but sadly seems less frequent all the time... Happy new year folks, I'm not optimistic, but do have my fingers crossed that somehow people will be better to one another in a post-covid world. |
Marco, congratulations on the CSLS! I don't know if it inverts polarity in the signal path between its RCA inputs and its XLR output (the website says "in phase" but conceivably that could just apply to the path between XLR input and XLR output). In any event, though, even if it is inverting polarity I don't see why interchanging + and - at one end of the speaker cables wouldn't correct for that (assuming it matters at all, which would be recording dependent). Also, btw, a polarity reversal would be 180 degrees, not 90. Enjoy! Regards, -- Al |
Hello folks! I ended buying used the statement linestage so me top I joined the Coincident family... I have a question. I notes thatboth xlr connections (input and output) have reversal + and - pin (as also Accuphase and a few other brands have). This cause a slight loss of focus in soundstage and a lightweight bass. All my sources are connected through RCA but towards linestage to Power amp (standard pin) I use a balanced cable. I suspect that this is a situati on of 90° reversed polarity. And reverse the speaker polarity cable will not resolve the matter. Do you have some experience or suggestione to try? Thanks in advance! Marco |
Yes Charles a partner with Krells it's actually unusual. Sound is good (fantastic in dynamics) but I find it sometimes aggressive in mid-highs and with a great (maybe too much) punch in bass region. Owner use a PC+DCS Puccini Dac combo and speakers are Coincident pure reference Extreme (the version with separate stands for mid-highs). About SS I find that Viola Bravo is in another superior league but it's also very very expensive. Best from Italy Marco |
Last post... Hi Jeff; actually I never heard the CSL partnered with Frankestein or similar tube amps (I also find very attractive the partnership with Coincident's Dragon). My other listening experiences with CSL in my friend's listening room were with Viola Bravo (in two cases) and Krell FPB monos. Just to let you know that I take a look to your listening room that is extremely similar to mine (mine is significantly smaller but with the same proportions and same unusual ceiling; 15 x 20 ft. approx and ceiling 7,4 to 16,5 ft). best Marco |
Thank Charles I forgot to write that the CSL in my hand was indeed a unit with two years life and stock tubes. Also interesting about my test it's the different tube approach of the three linestages: CSL uses an unusual old tube and you can improve it with the new Western Electric production. Aria WV11XL is a chameleon-like electronics, since it can use more than 20 (twenty!) different tubes and this cause a great change of nuances in details, dynamics (gain may vary from 12 up to 30 db) and timbre.. so is a very unusual product which can be adapted to all tastes; neverthless is the only of the three with a very high output impedance (3-4000 ohm) that force to find a partner power amp with at least 200-300kohm input impedance... At the end there's the Allnic where you must use the stock tubes and forget all about tube rolling. Three different approach; three different scaling price (CSL 5500 USD; ARIA with all options was sold at 8800 USD and ALLNIC now raised at 11900 USD). My preference will go with a very little margin to CSL and L-3000 against my WV11; neverthless they are all excellent performers. my best Marco |
Hi Marco, I appreciate your input on these two world class linestages. As you point out, you couldn't possibly go wrong with either fine choice. The CSL is roughly 1/2 the cost of the stellar Allnic. The CSL high baseline performance can be substantially increased by using the Psvane W.E. 101d tubes according to several experienced owners on this thread (still waiting for my W.E. tubes). So one can obtain genuine top tier sound quality for a relatively reasonable cost. That is quite an admirable achievement. Thanks Marco, Charles, |
The thread seems oriented towards the fine tuning and amelioration of the Statement through better 101d's tubes. neverthless I add my experience, I recently had the opportunity to compare in my system Allnic L-3000 and Coincident statement (the latter I listened previously in two friend's systems). Both are not imported here in Italy; test were not side to side but in two different days. obviously same configuration, identical cables, same music etc. My reference was my linestage Aria WV11XL (the Mike Elliott's design), power amp is again from Elliott an hybrid Altavista NP220 premium (400kohm impedance). I had great expectations and I was not disappointed, I listened to two fantastic preamps and among the very best to find on the market in a reasonable class of price. Sonic charachter was slightly different; timbre and texture was a tiny better with Allnic that shows a very nice balance and better coherence from bottom to end. Both linestage have a truly first class detail; especially during the adagios in classical music they are absolutely superb revealing minimal ambience details and great focus. I find some difference in presentation of music, which is (very slightly) more advanced with Allnic and more distant with the Canadian product. In some symphonic program I would prefer a similar presentation as the Statement performance, since Im used to listen from 3rd to 10th row at concerts hall but this is only my taste... Coincident is undoubtly much faster; its easy to hear with some piano solos or acoustic guitar when it sounds fantastic, otherwise its sometimes slightly edgy in the upper treble; some unobtrusive sibilance appears occasionally so I suggest that it will be partnered with more caution with the rest of a system. On the other side Allnic L-3000 was a better choice with choir and opera voices, more clear and refined.. On the dynamics side they are both excellent (along with my Aria); in my tests all units were very similar in gain configuration (approx. 18-20 db gain). I must tell that the Statement unit I had was also occasionally sensitive to RFI and loop mass noises. In the subjective external appearance I find better refined the chassis of the Korean Allnic; which is clearly better thanks having a remote controlled volume, 5 inputs and a tape loop; the Coincident statement has only two inputs... very poor in flexibility also considering that it costs about half a price of Allnic... But.. about sound quality I would be very hesitant to make a choice.. both absolutely excellent. Just my twocents. Marco |
Brownsfan, Your point is well taken, the 101D is an intrinsically excellent tube (certainly as implemented in the Coincident design). The Shuguang version served me very well my first 4 years with this preamplifier and the Psvane hifi has been an improvement. I'm actually surprised that this beautifully natural sounding tube is used so rarely given its capabilities. As CSL owners we are fortunate Israel Blume decided to utilize the 101D. Charles, |
Charles, my point was that honestly, all of the 101Ds, the Shuguangs, the HiFIs, and the WE replicas have arguably been superb tubes. The 101D pretty much is a superb tube by design. To my ears, the differential between the WE's and the HiFis was not orders of magnitude improvement. I would really need to do a more careful A/B to really say more than I have said. Part of the problem is that while the WE's have been burning in, I've changed sources and speakers. I am thrilled with what I am hearing, but how much is due to the WE's will take that A/B with the HiFi. As I recall, right out of the box, the HiFis were a noticeable but not spectacular improvement over the Shugauangs. It took some burn in for the HiFis to really differentiate themselves. By now, I'm sure I've got a good 300-400 hours on the WE's, so an A/B on fully burned in HiFis vs WE's would be meaningful. |
Charles and everyone, I'm up to my elbows in new stuff (OK, my ModWright Sony HAPZ1 and Coincident Triumph Extreme IIs) and trying to get my house up for sale. Hence, the delay in getting a serious, or even casual, A/B/C with my 101D tube collection. It is clear to me that these are good sounding tubes, and they are certainly burned in now. I was a little put off by the build quality in the pair I received. I have found them to be pretty noisy until they have been on for 10-15 min. These probably should have been B stock tubes. I was just too busy to hassle with trying to send these back to China, plus, I couldn't have gotten a replacement pair, so I just kept my mouth shut. I suspect the factory is having some trouble in early production runs making the tubes. I think they will ultimately get things worked out, and we will all be so much the better for having a reliable supplier of primo 101Ds. It is a superb tube, and I can imagine a robust source of great new production tubes will inspire more equipment designers to take notice. Charles, I am eager to benefit from your assessment. Your system, life, and personality are a bit more stable than mine! |
I have just returned from leave to the sad news. Grant Fidelity have been able to supply some decent gear to Western countries that was so hard to source before. BTW, a few guys have bought the new WE 101D replicas over here as well and I understand they may be currently sold out. My report on the WE replica 101D's may have sounded enthusiastic but believe me I was toning it down to be a little conservative. Dr David, just wait until you have a few hundred hours on these tubes- they just keep getting better. The tonality and timbre continues improve gradually up to around 300 - 400 hours. I have played mine 24/7 to get the hours up. I think they need around 80 to 100 hours to get a good idea on what they are capable of, even though they sound great out of the box. |
06-12-14: Charles1dadCharles, there is a very understandable, and very sad, reason for the lack of response. See their website. Best, -- Al |
I called Grant Fidelity today and left a message, no reply yet. I'll send an email and if no response I'll see if Israel Blume is selling them. I've had the CSL for nearly 5 years and will likely have it for 20 years or more. May as well get the best 101d tubes currently available and be done. Using premium 300b tubes surely make an undeniable improvement with my SET amplifier. David and Pap's enthusiasm have gotten my attention Charles, |
Hi Charles , Sorry to avoid directly answering this question but I must comment on these spectacular 101d-l W.E. replicas. I couldn't resist and felt the urge to try them back to back with my already excellent Hi Fi series 101's. Right out of the box their sound quality improvement was immediately noticeable; which I always take as a good sign . I have about 15 hours on them now and I have to say that these truly are spectacular and very special tubes. They are more organic, ( I know, hard to believe,but very noticeably so)and impactfull that the instruments and voices sound so much more visceral and real. They are definitely more tonally balanced with greater extension at the frequency extremes with a clearer more life like midrange. My Franks never sounded as good and have ,hard to believe ,even more magic than they had with the already improved( over stock) 101's. I have never been so drawn into the music as I am now. There is much more detail conveyed in terms of harmonics that helps create this magical sense of palpability . I believe this is also partially due to a fairly obvious lowering of (an already low) noise floor. Experience has taught me that I am never aware of the impact of noise floors until I actually lower them some more. This , combined with the visceral impact and organic qualities and frequency extensions that these new tubes impart on the sound, have transported me to a surprisingly higher level of enjoyment and love for listening. I am sincerely shocked and amazed by these extraordinary tube. I knew they may be a bit better than the Hi Fi series ,but really , they blow them away. They are definitely in different leagues; like the standard Shuguang 300b tubes are with the Sophia RP,AVVT32'and of course the king,the Takatsukis. I believe and actually feel that this is something you MUST do... Sorry for the long rant but these babies are special just like those special 300b's mentioned above , that I ,and many other lovers of true organically sounding visceral music lovers love. I don't just think you will love them but I will go out on a limb and say you definately will love them. ..........Now for addressing your original question . The new CST Extreme AC cables were definately an improvement over the originals and you know what I thought about the changes. I would have to say that the W.E. improvement is so great that it's magnitude of improvement is larger . But the CST upgrade is no slouch either and definately worth the money. I haven't heard the new 101's with the older CST cable so I cannot accurately comment . However perhaps they do help allow the 101's to let their magic show . But really there is no question in my mind that you should consider doing both . You will really be happy you did. David |
