Lacee, I agree anything that slows the sound is not useful.
Any combo I use has the opposite effect. Even down to the use of a single AC Enacom.(I don't even know if they are made any more and my use is unique- in an unused outlet of a power conditioner :) |
With great respect for your dedicated, creative and productive research resulting in "excellent" products my experience remains valid. My ears have told me and other listeners the immense benefit of complimentary conditioning/isolation for my Spectral based system. You did say "in general" and I don't dispute that; merely mentioning there are "possibilities" and you won't know if you don't try. I have a variety of items and think a next experiment will be a power cord from you to replace one of the MIT Oracle AC3s I use. I feel privileged to have you contribute your experience & knowledge to the forum. Wishing you continued enjoyment from your dedicated research & creativity, patents, profits and contribution to our enjoyment of recorded music. I live near Vancouver,BC and certainly hope to visit your facility some time. Pete |
I have plugged the Hydra into the Furman, but never the other way around.
I don't do that anymore,the Furman is in the HT system, the Hydra is into dedicated lines music only system.
I felt the sound was lacking speed when paired up.
So I would agree with what Grant states.
Also, simpler is usually better. |
In general, I'd stay away from daisy-chaining conditioners or using multiple conditioners of differing design in the same system. From our experience and from those we've spoken with that have tried combining, more is not better. Not to mention the fact that AC traveling through added junctions in front of current-sensitive electronics is counterintuitive based on the manner in which AV components draw current.
Shunyata's design POV is pointed toward getting out of the way of peak-current transfer from the wall to the components. All Shunyata products from cords to Hydras to outlets minimize resistance characteristics and avoid the use of reactance that can interfere with the conditioning in component power supplies. That design tenet runs contrary to balanced power, transformers, chokes and regenerators.
We're not holding that our way is better, just stating that using two entirely different approaches to power distribution in the same system isn't "covering more bases". Instead, it is over-complicating the delivery path for current and adding unnecessary connections. It's better to compare and choose one delivery device or distribution system that you prefer.
Regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
|
Lacee, have you tried the Hydra plugged into the Furman? |
I never had a chance to compare either of the Furmans directly with an EQuitech,that would be fun.
Inside the Furman is a very large transformer,and the larger one works best on a 20 amp line,so I never thought it wise to plug it into either of the Hydras.Something just doesn't sit well with me going that way, so I never tried it,perhaps I should as I've lived on the edge bypassing fuses for years.
Somethingelse that stops me from going that route is the thought that what the Hydra does to clean up the power maybe all in vain once it passes thru the Furman and becomes balanced.
So I figure, balance the power first and clean up the power that's just been balanced.
So far I've not heard from anyone who has gone the way you inquired about ,Elizabeth tends to feel it should be the other way around so you are not alone in your thinking.
I wish someone from Furman or Equitech or Shunyata could helps us with this dilema.
Regarding outlets,Shunyata already has cryod outlets that you can buy,I have a couple of them and they were better than any of the stock Hubbels I tried,but they were not cyod.They are the same outlets they used in their original Hydra series, maybe they use something different now.
I did spring for the Furutech GTX Gold, receptacle and I am quite impressed with the build quality,and the tight locking fit.
I run them on the dedicted line with my two power amps plugged directly into it.
I suggest you take a look at those before you take the plunge and buy at least one for your most power thirsty component,most likely your amp.They also come with the cryo treatment, and as I mentioned I've not seen a more robust receptacle,which is impressive compared to any stock receptacle.
How could it not sound better?
I would compare it to Cardas Clear and a stock one would be 18 guage zip wire. |
Thanks Mross and Lacee.
I have upgraded all outlets to 20 amp industrial grade, leviton, I think. Cosidering an upgrade to all Hubbell HBL5362, their top industrial grade and having them all cyro'd to -300 as there's a lot of positive talk about cyro generally, and I recently discovered Ed Meitner has been using it for years.
I have dedicated lines, one digital one amp+pre.
Lacee. did you experiment puttng your other conditioning units before the Furman. I have heard it may be better. Did you compre with equitech? |
I've used Furman balanced power conditioners on dedicated lines with Hydra 2 and 8 plugged into them.
No problems with compatibility.
No sparks flew, no noise issues, but...
I felt the sound was a bit restricted,or over protected.
So the furmans are run in the HT system and the Hydras are on their own in the music system.
Perhaps it was too much of a good thing,or certain wavelengths or frequencies were over filtered and others not.
At first I liked it,then I started switching components in and out of the devices as a system and on their own into just one device at a time.
I heard more clarity this way, but perhaps I am mistaking some of the "air" I hear for line noise that is present now.
Other than the Furmans(IT 15, It 2200)I haven't used any other balanced power conditioners or isolation transformers so my experience is limited. |
I take it, from your post, that you have a Hydra and are looking to improve upon its performance, yes? For what it's worth, I have two Hydras in my system (although not the newest models, as they keep changing them every couple of years and doubling the prices in the process!) I can't offer an opinion as to whether the new Hydras (the Alphas, the Talos and the Triton) are better than the latest offerings from PS Audio or others because I haven't heard them. But what I can say is that my Hydras were, to my ears at least, an order or two magnitude better than their competition at the time I purchased them.
One upgrade option for whichever model you have is to upgrade the power cord--though that can be pricey itself. If you own your own home and haven't already done it, however, the most cost effective tweak I can recommend is to have an electrician install a dedicated line (or lines) for your gear... dedicated meanthing that earch line has only one wall outlet and nothing besides your condition is on that line. It/they should be grounded at least 20 amps. I have two of them--one overrated at 30 amps (for my amplifier, connected via a Hydra 2) and one 20 amp for my source components (via a Hydra 4).
The cost for this will vary, depending on the distance between your outlet and the fuse box, and local electrician fees. But it will still be small compared to buying a really good new conditioner. (My 30 and 20 amp lines cost me $250 and $200 respectively).
If you live in a rental and cannot do this, you could at least still upgrade the wall outlets (and yes, it does make a difference, especially if your gear is highly resolving). With or without a dedicated line, I'd defintely suggest doing the outlets. Prices for "audiophile" grade outlets seem to run anywehere from about $30 to $300. I've tried the PS Audio outlets (at around $45 and the Shunyatas, which are cryio treated) at $75 and settled on the latter.
Hope this helps |
Thanks Jafant. Interesting about the plamsa tv. I have a 4 yr old Sony that's still for me, but I expect Plasma would be my next move. In dealers they seem great right out of the wall. Hard for me to imagine improvement. |
Ptss-
the Hydra is great for Audio gear, simply buy Shunyata's top power cord for it.
On the other hand, the V-Ray is outstanding for Video gear, especially Plasma tv. |
Well, not exactly a power conditioner for the power conditioner but rather a different kind of filtering of the ac noise.
I have not found any product to be perfect.
For example an Equitech balanced transformer is very effective but with additional MIT products and cables I use the results of the combination exceed either/any of the products on their own-by far..
My experience is that digital benefits from exceptionally clean power supply along with total isolation from the pre & power amps- mine are Spectral.
With the ever evolving knowledge/science I am always interested in improvement for ac power. |
You're wanting advice on a power conditioner for a power conditioner? I'm not trying to be a smart a.., I'm just curious because I've wondered about the same thing, if that 's what you are asking. |
