Confused as to where to go next...looking for warmth


I hope this is the right place for this posting.  I don't ever post, but do tons of reading and "window shopping."  I have gotten myself into a little bit of analysis paralysis.  I hope that you guys can help clear up the muddy waters for me!

When listening to music, I am using a Bluesound Node 2i, an upgrade over the Apple TV that I was using.  I was using Tidal for both, and now testing a Roon core installed on an Apple computer.
My processor/receiver is an Arcam FMJ AVR 400, but I use it with an external Liberty Audio B2B-100 power amp (200wpc@4ohms), driving an older pair of Totem Forest speakers.  I also have a Totem Model 1 signature center for watching tv.  

I want to improve the 2 channel sound of the system.  My impression is that the Forests and Liberty are very revealing and clean sounding.  I don't have the audiophile vocabulary, but I will try.  I think the system is lacking something, it sounds dark, maybe on the clinical side.  I want the music to better come alive and add some warmth, without sacrificing detail and punch.  Hopefully that makes sense.

The Schiit Freya+ has my attention and I have been looking at DACs.  The Freya may add the warmth that I am looking for, and I can run it in home theater bypass for watching movies/TV.  My DAC research has confounded me, however...

The option I would probably go with, if I didn't decider to tech out to you guys, is to get the Freya+ and Gungnir DAC.  That seems like a matched system, eliminates the HT processor from 2 channel listening, and I would think would be a massive improvement.

The DAC confusion started when I started looking at all of the different options out there.  Topping D90, Tubadour, MHDT Orchid, etc.  So much that I started to doubt the Freya even...

I hope that provides enough detail for what I am trying to accomplish.  My budget can be described as towards the best bang for the buck..trying not to spend more than $2000 +/-, hopefully less than that.  Open to used.  Thanks in advance for your input! 

Andy
Dallas, TX 


andy727
Thanks everyone for the advice.  On of the reasons I was looking at the Freya was to get the AVR out of the loop, but sounds like overwhelmingly that getting it out of the system is critical.  

It sure is. Back when first building my system the AVR thing cost me dearly. There's a huge marketing push behind AVR, and HT in general. In the process of buying my first one I went around listening to a lot of them. Along the way I would sometimes listen to an integrated. Or bring one home to audition. They never came anywhere close to my ancient Kenwood integrated.  

So I tried better quality processors. Because, we must have surround! According to all the marketing.... Better and better, even some really expensive ones, yet none could match my ancient 1970's Kenwood! Not because the Kenwood was so great either. It wasn't. But surround, its just not for audiophiles. Not for music. Not even for movies. Not really. Not if you care about sound quality. 

The minute I dropped the surround requirement boom! Now there's all kinds of great sounding options! Integrateds are the most cost effective, best performance for the dollar. You can get an incredible high quality sound from a good integrated. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Read the reviews. Notice the most recent one, his reaction is due to a system so much warmer than he ever heard - yet it was detailed enough so when he went home he found himself longing for that nice round warm full sound. 

One way you get there is simplicity. The more stuff crammed into a box the harder it is to keep noise from one thing leaking into another. Power supplies are critical, and more things means more demands on the power supply. Also its quality matters more than anything else and the fewer things you have, the easier it is to have them be high quality. This goes whether its speakers  where $5k buys you two awesome speakers- or 7 mediocre ones- or even all the way down to parts where a few really high quality caps sounds way better than a box stuffed with hundreds.  

The sound quality you're looking for, warm, is a balance between the detail of the initial attack of a note and the round warm tone of its fundamental. Cymbals in real life go tinnnggggg, its cheap power supplies, caps, and noise that make them sound like they go tisss. The sound you want is the difference between a guitar where you feel the string plucked and then the body of the guitar resonate full and warm, and the sound of some guy running his fingernails over a washboard. Which sad to say is a lot of systems.  

This obviously is all very general info. But its the kind of info I have found to be very useful over the years.

@andy727
Part of the added grain and lack of finesse you are hearing starts with the Node2i itself, using it's own native 24/192 Burr Brown internal DAC. 

It's a fair throw-in DAC for what you pay for the 2i platform, AND there is a COAX out on the back for a reason, an option so you add-on a much better DAC to get you closer in the smoothness direction you are looking for.  See other Node2i threads.  Start at the source before changing downstream. 
I pulled the speakers out in front of the console to get them to 5.5' apart..this reveled a much more pronounced soundstage.  I can probably tweak them a bit more, but this was an immediate improvement.  Coupled with going from the Node direct to the B2B was a huge improvement.

I know the Node's DAC is a limitation, so now on to a new DAC, cables, and line stage.  I found a Gungnir at a good price, so I am tempted to grab it.

@millercarbon, Great information and insight.  that is an impressive system!  I got intrigued by the Tekton speakers when everyone was reviewing them not too long ago.  To your point, I have a 2 channel system in my office.  Musical Fidelity M1SDAC and two M1pwr amps as mono blocks powering Totem Model 1's.  I never do this, but watched a movie through an Apple TV running into the 2ch system the other day.  (It usually runs CNBC all day in silence.)  I didn't miss having surround at all. In some ways, this little system sounds better than my big one.  Now that I am addressing the main system, hopefully not for long..


If you haven't done any room treatment, have a look at REW and "see" where your at as far as system response and room interface is concerned...  Speaker placement is pretty important and REW can "show" what speaker movement does for your overall system response...
Andy, another option is a combined DAC-preamp straight into your power amp. Balanced outputs would be nice, too. Could make your budget go further if you get good synergy. Maybe a Mytek Brooklyn or iFi Pro iDSD; the latter offers a tube buffered output and also could conceivably replace the Node as a streamer.