The Lyngdorf units sound much better when used as a total system. Using another amp, regardless of the amp, deteriorates the sound in my experience. I have tried several tube amps, SS amps, and even Lyngdorf’s own 2400. In the end something was lost and the magic was reduced. Sure at first you will notice differences and be enchanted, but over a period of a week or two when you go back to using the Lyngdorf completely you will quickly learn what I have. The synergy and reduced complexity of the one box system with its short signal path and reduced cabling is the key.
I dont blame you for trying, as I did, but over the last 3 years the above learnings have emerged. Just remember to let the amp section in the 3400 break in and be on for 12 hours before making any conclusions. |
@grannyring I've been a SET fanatic for 20+ years, The flexibility of using the TDAI 3400 as both a DAC, Roon Endpoint, 400w amplifier and preamp to feed my SET amp plus the room correction are the reasons I bought it. I sometimes just feel like listening to certain music with a set amp and at times I crave the power from solid-state for bigger pieces of music. This solution allows me the best of both worlds using my Luxman AS-55 amp switcher to feed the Encores either tube and solid-state output effortlessly which is my main goal. I'm all for the idea of TDAI-3400 replacing my SET amp, but I'm not holding my breath because on certain pieces of music the sound my amplifier produces is just glorious in the mid-range and excels on female vocals, jazz, small acoustic pieces.
I'll be very pleasantly surprised if it this piece replaces my tube amplifier.
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Jcarcopo,
I understand your predicament. I currently have a 300b SET and two tube class A/B push pull amplifiers. For what I listen to 90% of the time (acoustical jazz) the SET exceeds all prior types of amplifiers. It’s simply the most convincing, pure and realistic.
Jcarcopo, it seems based on Lyngdorf owner commentary this one box component could be the ultimate solution.unmatched convenience coupled with superb sound quality. You will soon find out if this applies to your circumstances and desires. Same scenario IMO with regard to waltersalas. I’m very curious to read both of your listening impressions.
If both of you decide to sell your respective SET amplifiers then it would seemingly confirm what current Lyngdorf owners have been enthusiastically posting. You may in fact end up being "pleasantly surprised" time will tell.
Charles |
@charles1dad Thanks Charles, won't be long to find out what's what. I kind of just want to keep the SET regardless because I spent way too much money for it which I'll likley never recoup (to say nothing of my rather large tube collection investment), additionally it's a beautiful piece, and more importantly it sounds phenomenal. |
Agreed @jcarcopo. I wanted the same exact thing being a strong tube guy for decades. I still work on tube amps and love them! Two things just made the combo not work for me.
- something about the analog outs on my 2170 combined with the ICs just in the end sounded... well, less good. I tried with several and felt less connected to the music and performance. These tube amps were great as an FYI. The unit seems built and finessed to play best on its own. Hope you find differently with your 3400. Perhaps since the piece is a powered digital amp meant to keep the signal digital from beginning to end. By end I am just before the internal speaker outputs. With the 2170 some SQ is lost through the analog outs. No doubt about it. Is the 3400 the same? I would think so, but perhaps not. @kdude......Kenny, found this to also be the case when trying various amps with his Lyngdorf.
- The hassle factor is very high to swap amps with the ICs now in play and switching of speaker cables. Also you need to run room Perfect with each set up and save. Cannot use the one unit setting for your other amps as they impart their own sound and impact on the room. Also, the 2170 always stayed on for best sound and I never had to worry about heat or anything with this cool running 25 watt pulling piece.
Anyway, just my experience. I still get tube amps in here to work on and will never stop loving all that is tubes! Not trying to push you to like this or that and really do hope the 3400 is also magic with your tube amp. Nice to change things up....at least theoretically 😄 |
Hey y'all, what size room are you putting the Encores in?
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@grannyring I hope your assertions pan out. I could really use the money selling off my Nords, Benchmark DAC2 HGC, and even the Diavolo (even though I really don't want to give it up). At least the Luxman Amplifier switcher makes switching amplifiers a turn of 20amp rated heavy duty knob, so no cable swaps are needed.
@evolvist My room is smaller, only 16x14.5x9 |
@evolvist My room is 20 X 20 with a cathedral ceiling, but opens up in the back. |
Hell, mine is only 13x12x8, but I have lots of acoustic treatment and the ability to move it around. *sigh* |
@evolvist I'm pretty nearfield to my Encores and I love um. If you liked the DIs, you're going to be ecstatic with the Encores. Read my prior posts for my listening impressions. |
@jcarcopo What's nearfield for you? Can you share your Encore positioning, distances, etc.? Thanks. |
@david_ten Because of how my room is layed out, I'm forced to fire off my long wall which is 16' across. The speakers are 8.5' apart, approx 2.5' from the front wall, 3.5' from the side walls and my listening position is 8.5' away with about a 2' space behind me that allows me to recline in my listening chair. The room has a 9' trey ceiling that drops to 8' around the perimeter. The acoustics are very good in this room, so only minimal dsp around 40hz and 18khz needs to be applied in software on my roon media server to achieve a very flat response. |
@Jcarcopo, yeah, I wouldn't call that "nearfield," but I get the picture. :-)
I could do roughly the same with my room, as I've done that with the DIs...roughly.
Note that my DIs were strictly on loan, as I didn't care for them much, but I figured to be fair to Tekton and myself, I would hold out for the Encores with the promise that they would be a considerable upgrade from the DIs. I mean, Tekton DID NOT have to loan me DIs (I paid for them) for almost a year until the Encores were ready, but they did, which is a class act. I'm really excited about the Encores to see how they will beat the DIs. :-) |
@evolvist I just wish I had an extra 10 feet to give these speakers more room behind them and more room behind my listening position to get better depth and addedambiance.
MY LYNGDORF TDAI-3400 SHIPPED ALREADY!
Tentatively it’s arriving on the 7th if there’s no customs hold ups. That was so much faster than I expected! I highly recommend Neal at Sound Science if you are interested in getting a Lyngdorf. He was very polite, professional, and extremely fast with turning this purchase around very quickly.
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You won’t need extra room behind them with the Lyngdorf.
All will be right in the world when it is setup |
@jcarcopo Thanks! That helps.
As @evolvist mentions, not quite as nearfield as I had expected.
I find moving away from the SEs really opens up the sweet spot. My closest seating position is similar to yours 8.5 feet apart and ~ 8.5 feet from the center point in the speaker plane. However, my speakers are more pulled out into the room and sit further from the side walls.
My preferred position is about 12.5 to 13 feet from the center point between the speakers, with the speakers nearly in line with my ears (but crossing behind them). My seating position is also higher than normal (but the speaker base is about 2 inches off the floor).
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@david_ten Yeah, I guess it just feels nearfield because I cant pull them out further or put the listening position further away. They completely dissappear though and the depth and soundstage are as good as I could hope for. |
@grey9hound Yes, I’ve heard that too with Lyngdorf, duly noted. I’ve heard you can put the speakers against the front wall with the Lyngdorf, but that’s crazytalk. The Encores are rear ported and I’ve got an obstruction in the way regardless. Just seems counterintuitive because depth of field comes from bringing your speakers out from the front wall up to 1/3rd the distance to the rear wall. |
Yes I agree that it is a little crazy talk by Lyngdorf. It is true that RP lets you do this without the kind of major sonic set backs you get without RP. However, pulling the speakers out from the wall does nothing but help SQ. I did the tests in my prior dedicated room with my Harbeth 40.1s. With RP the sound improved when the speakers were well off the front wall and into the room. |
So, for those who own the Encores and have heard the DIs, how would you characterize the difference between the two speakers? |
The array goes a full octave lower. The array is very transparent, very resolute, exceedingly dynamic, and effortless in it's presentation from 300hz-20khz. There's nothing in the way between you and the music, no film, no grunge, no struggling. It's like electrostatic-like crossed with the best of horns. The bass is prodigious and gutteral yet defined and detailed, the DIs are just not in the same league. I could here tape-print-through on a vinyl rip of Frank Sinatra B side of Only the Lonely "Blues in the Night". I can hear the next line of the song imprinted on the previous line of the song. It's not analytical in the slightest, yet as detailed as humanly possible. They are the best live sounding speakers I've ever heard.
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Hi Jcarcopo,
I hope that I'm not going to far out on a limb but I get the impression you're quite happy with the Encores😀😀.
Charles |
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The delta between the Encores and SEs is going to be much more interesting to tease out. |
@charles1dad Yes, they are a very worthy upgrade. Where else can you get a manufacturer that gives you more than 50% of the speaker’s price tag just in drivers and the crossover parts alone? It’s unheard of! You’re lucky to get $2000 in total parts for a typical $10k high-end speaker. Hell, just the tweeters alone in the Encore are worth around $2400, but what they do collectively and sonically is priceless. This is a very high value proposition for anyone looking for a real steal of a deal along with exquisite performance that rivals speakers costing many multiples of the Encores price. Join the club, you won’t be disappointed. |
Well, I'm excited about the Encores. There is stiff competition out there, but if these destroy the DIs (among other non-Tekton brands, obviously), then it's certainly a good value for the dollar. We all know people are who are spending stupid cash on speakers, and though I'm not saying that the end doesn't justify the means, as there are also tons of wonderful speakers on the market; nevertheless, one has to wonder why half of them (or more) or just a reiteration, upon a reiteration, upon a reiteration of the same theme with no discernible benefits. I have a very good friend, whom I adore as an audiophile mind, who just has to buy the latest and greatest. There's nothing wrong with that, but what I find odd is that he'll snub his nose at previous "Speakers of the Year," or whatnot, as if the technology really has changed, since, let's say, 2002, or even 1982, when very well made speakers from the past can still spark the mind in 2018.
In the case of the Encores, it seems like they'll wipe the floor with the DIs. Are they good enough? We'll see, as room size, front end gears, amplification, etc. can make a difference in how a speaker speaks to you. |
jcarcopo,
I believe the "print thru" you heard on your vinyl is the result of a properly set-up turntable. Doesn't really have much to do with the resolution of the loudspeaker. IMO. I hear this artifact on my system many times. |
@mr_m I asked my buddy who mastered the digital recording off the original vinyl with a very refined vinyl analog playback/ADC recording setup and he said it was mastertape print-through since I was hearing the next line in the song before it actually played. Sort of like a faint 2 second preview of the next line of the song, which makes sense at least to me since the following line of the song imprinted on the layer of spooled tape beneath it. I don’t understand how that is a vinyl playback related issue. I wasn’t hearing an echo. I actually originally thought it was Sinatra wearing headphones hearing a previous take of the song played while singing along with it slightly delayed and the mic picked up his headphone output faintly. My buddy said normally this effect is so far down in db that it’s inaudible or corrected in the recording. The relevance to me was only to point out to everyone that I had played that track hundreds of times on both horn speakers and the DIs and never noticed it before. For the first time it was very noticeable to me on the Encores. The point I was making al beit poorly because I didn’t go into much detail was how resolute and transparent the Encores were at the retrieval of this low level hidden information on this familiar recording. My buddy has jbl k2 speakers and he couldn’t hear it. |
I would tend to think that the tape print thru would be transferred to the vinyl if the process were of high enough resolution. As far as the tape is concerned, I was told the same thing that your friend told you. It seems that the recorder heads have sufficient magnetic capability to record a faint signal to the layer of tape below the first layer. I'm no expert, just an observation. |
@mr_m Oh, yes I completely agree with that, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that the effect was caused by vinyl playback, but yes I agree the signal was transferred from tape to vinyl absolutely. I must say it's pretty impressive of vinyl imho. |
So the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 sounds very good with my Encores. It's a very smooth, natural, and neutral sounding presentation. It's a little less forward than my Nords Class D NCORE amps + Benchmark DAC2 HGC. The Room Perfect definitely perfected the bass response, cleaned up the slight midrange congestion noticeably, and improved the depth of field slightly. It does sound lovely. It's a very musical combination. They really did a great job with creating a very short and simple signal path directly from digital bits to amplified analog sound. It's very resolute and detailed, but not analytical are fatiguing sounding at all. I couldn't be happier with the piece.
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Hi Jcarcopo,
Good to read your initial listening impressions are so pleasing and will surely improve with subsequent burn-in hours. Do you listen to much jazz? I'm interested to know if it conveys the emotional connection of a Miles, Chet Baker, Coltrane, Milt Jackson etc. As convincingly as I assume the Diavolo does. If so then you've found your ideal 1 box audio solution. This genre of music is where in my experience quality SET seperates itself from other topologies. If the Lyngdorf equals or exceeds in this area then that is a significant achievement. For certain you're off to a very good start.
Charles |
@charles1dad Yes I listen to jazz a lot. I’m a big Ella Fitzgerald and Satchmo, et al fan. I did play some Wynton Marsalis when I first turned the Lyngdorf on initially and it sounded very good even without Room Perfect setup. I really haven’t played anything else in the Jazz 🎺 genre yet, but I will and report back.
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Jcarcopo,
Thanks for the reply. I'm glad the Lyngdorf has fulfilled your expectations.
Charles |
This is a copy of what I posted on Facebook... So I got my Encores set up over the weekend and started using them with my Lyngdorf 3400, mainly streaming music from Tidal/Roon Nucleus+ and also playing some CDs on my Oppo 205. I know it will take a while before the Encores and the Lyngdorf are properly broken in but I can already tell that this is an incredible combination. I agree with JC's description of the sound. I've never had music sound so good in my room. The instruments and the vocals are real. I played it all at a pretty high volume and heard no distortion what so ever. Everything sounded effortless and easy. One thing I noticed however that started to worry me a little. After few hours of enjoying the music I noticed that the Lyngdorf got pretty hot to touch. The Encores are 96db efficient which means they should be pretty easy to drive. Lyngdorf is a digital amp and all digital amps I tried in the past never got more than just a little warm. This one got hot, just like a class A analog amp. Wonder if this is normal. I contacted Lyngdorf but didn't get any response yet. |
@olesno Thanks for your review on the Encores and Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 combination! I wondered if it was you on the Tektons Worldwide Owners Facebook group I was chatting with! Now I know who you are in both places so I can keep things straight in my head! Things will only improve as time goes by for your Encores as things loosen up for the speakers and as well for your Lyngdorf as it breaks in. Chris is supposed to have his Encores today and he too ordered the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 over this weekend and he will likley have it hopefully by Friday. It's funny how we have 3 Encore owners each with the same Lyngdorf electronics!
I was looking at the Lyngdorf for months, but I had a bad experience with a dealer and was offered another deal through the owner of Core Power Technology which turned into attempted fraud after 6 weeks of waiting and PayPal Credit having to refund me because his refund bounced his checking account. So I shelved the idea for a month or so. I'm so glad I revisited the Lyngdorf and found Neal at Sound Science who took care of me and was exemplary. |
I haven't had much time to respond here but I promise I'll catch up. I need few more days and I will share my opinion. I am very happy with my Encores and Lyngdorf combination. Mostly..., thanks to jcarcopo and grannyring. Obviously Eric Alexander and Peter Lyngdorf had a lot to do with my audio nirvana too. I love my hobby of 50 years or so.
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@olesno Thanks for the kind words. Take your time. We will be here! |
My Art Audio Diavolo SET 300b Tube Amplifier sounds phenomenally good through the Lyngdorf with the Room Perfect properly setup under a 2nd Speaker Setup while using the Preamp output on the Lyngdorf and my Luxman AS-55 amplifier switcher to switch from Class D to the tube amp. It really makes a very noticeable difference in the Bass and Midrange. I'm very happy with my system sound now and love both the Class D and the SET tube sound. I prefer the Diavolo on some music and the Class D on bigger pieces that can use the extra power. It's great having choices! |
Hi jcarcopo,
I am really happy to read that things have worked out so well for you with the acquisition of the Lyngdorf. It sure seems as though the "room perfect "feature is excellent in its capacity. I can see where the 400 watts of the Lyngdorf are welcome for certain genres of music. I can also understand whers the 300b Diavolo may be unsurpassed for specific listening situations.
Bottom line is you have got it covered across the board with this current set up. Congratulations.
Charles |
Interesting. I’ve been sort of eyeing monitors from Tekton. Kind of ugly but the more I read here the more I want to hear them.
im redoing my entire system and currently using Focal 807v which I like but I know there’s much better. I’m very wary though as I listen to classic punk, classic reggae and 80’s/90’s alt vs jazz or the like. |
Go church I have the Monitor Impact, I use Plinius sa 100, alternate Viva tube 300b, if you can match this speakers right, they will play your prefer music effortlessly ... |
I've been using Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cables for the last couple of years and I like them a lot. After I got my Encores and the Lyngdorf 3400 I started rearranging my audio set up and my 8'-0" speaker cables might be a little bit too short. I will probably have to replace my current cables with the same but longer set or possibly something else. Is there anything out there that I should look into that has a special synergy with Tekton - Lyngdorf combination? Or, just works well with Tekton in general? Just looking for opinions...
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@olesno I've had very good experiences running Analysis Plus interconnects, speaker cables, and power cables. My bias towards these cable center around their absolute neutrality, truthfulness, and electrically superior properties and not as a tone control. I don't like cables that have a flavor or act as a bandaid to an unbalanced system. The Analysis Plus cables are very well made, rugged, and use a novel hollow oval geometry to lower resistance and inductance over conventional cables. They are engineered by engineers, not amateur hobbyists selling snake oil.
I use a 10' biwire pair of big silver ovals 10awg to my encores. I separate runs of their black mesh 10awg to my luxman amp switcher and to both the Lyngdorf and the Diavolo. I use their new triple hollow geometry, double shielded, silver apex for interconnects to my Diavolo. I use their power oval2 Mkll power cables on all my gear.
If you want a great cable with excellent bass and detail retrieval that's well made, you be hard pressed to find a better cable company to deal with. If you're interested I can get you anything you want. I know the owner, Mark, pretty well. I used to resell his cables when I was in highend audio back in 2001-2010 back in California so he gets me whatever I want at a discount. |
Cables made with the Duelund stranded copper in cotton wire sounds fantastic with your gear. Fantastic. I make these under the Acoustic BBQ brand and you can also build them yourself if you have some DIY skills. Very reasonably priced and beautiful sounding.
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I also use the Cerious Graphene Extreme speaker cables on my Encores and find that they sound terrific. However, I have not tried anything else. I am also using a Cerious Graphene Extreme power cord (blue) on the Lyngdorf, though I may experiment with a few others to find the best match. Thinking of trying an Audioquest Hurricane, or maybe the Cerious Matrix series.
I will vouch for grannyring's Acoustic BBQ USB cable. I've been listening most of the weekend and it sounds very, very musical--detailed but also full-bodied. In a few days, I will put back in the TotalDac cable I had been using for a direct comparison, but at less than half the price, the Acoustic BBQ is holding its own and then some!
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Thank you gentlemen for the reply posts. All three are very interesting. First, I have no experience with Analysis Plus but I know they've been around for years and generally are very well regarded. Jonathan, if you could PM me with some pricing on 9' or 10' speaker cables that would be great. I'd appreciate that. Bill, I got some interconnects from you and I like them in my setup. I might try the speaker cables too. We spoke about the USB cable once and I'm intrigued by that one too. Right now I am using Curious cable. Walter, I like the Cerious GEs a lot but the Matrix might be too pricey for me right now. Than again, I don't know what I'm missing if I don't try it. |
@olesno
Yeah, they are pricey, and so is the Audioquest Hurricane AC cable. What I tell myself--my rationalization--is that because I am eliminating the need for some cables in my system with the 3400, I can "reinvest" in a better power cord and better speaker cables to get the very most of the 3400.
On the other hand, if Bill's cords are as good or better, than I will be all too happy to spend the savings on buying more music!
I can't recall whether Cerious offers an audition period like Tekton does, but it is worth a look. I have been waiting for some used Matrix speaker cables or power cords to pop up the classifieds, but I have yet to see it. Which may speak well for how good they sound! |
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@olesno and @waltersalas
The Graphene Extreme speaker cables are the absolute best cables in that price range, giant killers and I have tried many. The Matrix now resides in my entire system. No regrets. |
