Continuum Caliburn - really the best TT on earth?

Dear Raul,
Having owned and tested many (and still own some very good) tables, tonearms, phono-pres and carts I am pretty sure that the table is the basis to build upon. The virtual journey I made to Continuum in Melbourne some 6 years ago was a very funny one as you might remember. Having ended up with a Continuum Criterion I put this unit on a very special stand also improving vibration control. I never regret having done this investment. It is a pitty that a company like Continuum ended up with a small unit today, which should have seen the light of the day much earlier. The success story of these tables were ingenious people improving the design, especially the electronics continuously. Since today I never had a problem with my Continuum.

Dear @thuchan :  """ I believe that the Continuum tonearms are not only rare animals but among the best sounding tonearms ever designed. """

Six years ago in this same thread and when you were looking for advice about the Continuum TT  that " moved " your emotions to make the " voyage " after a CES I posted:


""" Maybe the Cobra alone could give you a better performance that any of the good tonearms you own with any of your TTs ........
Now, if what you move are more " emotions " than facts then IMHO you must go for what are pushing your " emotions """


""" No one here yet address the fact that the Cobra tonearm has a " weight " in the Continuum overall performance, more than what we can imagine. """


""" No, I did not but seems to me by its designs that maybe the most important " weight " in the overall Caliburn performance comes/culprit by the Cobra tonearm... """


""" Maybe could be interesting to test the Caliburn with out its dedicated rack-stand and with out the Cobra to find out or to be nearest to the stand alone real TT quality performance.  """


After those posts you answered me: 

""" Raul, I was going the path you followed and considered bying the Cobra tonearm... """

but " emotions win the " battle " and you gone for the Continuum TT/tonearm.

Why am I addressing these?  because the Caliburn?  , not really but because what I posted years before this thread and before other gentlemans in this forum ever addressed: that the single most important partner of any single cartridge is the tonearm and not the TT and you ( some way or the other ) just confirm it.

Yes, the Cobra is a very good tonearm and not easy to beat. Good too that you recognize that.

MF has different " preferences " but is magazine biased and that's why the comments of @halcro  in this regard.

Btw, I'm not saying that TT is not important because it's but has a different importance weight in the overall cartridge quality performance. Maybe even the Phonolinepreamp is more important in the LP analog experiences.

Good to hear from you again.

Regards and enjoy the music,

R.

My remark was, "It’s also INEVITABLE". As I stated later, it’s HUMAN NATURE.  My transposing of letters was a JOKE, and I made no, "remark" about your spelling.  If you were born with no sense of humor, that’s tragic. No one in Holland exhibits any, "showing off of wealth"?   Isn’t there a certain Golden Coach, in which your entire country takes pride? Hardy humble!  Your use of, "abominable", regarding others that spend money on expensive audio components is a, "mystery" to me. "Kantian"?  You’re the only one making moral judgments. I’m through with this discourse, as it has no relevance regarding the above mentioned turntable(not to mention, it’s been a waste of keystrokes).

@nandric-

 "You have obviously no other comment than about spelling mistakes..."

 That's hardly accurate!  Human nature(and it's attendant showing off) IS inevitable and your comment that showing off one's wealth, regarding, "cars, yachts, palaces, and women can hardly be blamed on, "Western decadence".   EVERYWHERE on the planet, people exhibit the same excesses, when having more wealth than class(ie:  "cars": Abu Dhabi’s Solid Gold Biofuel Mercedes,  "yachts": the world's current, biggest super-yacht, "Azzam," believed to be owned by the President of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan,   "palaces": Antilia, a 27-story skyscraper on the pricey Altamount Road in Mumbai, is the most expensive home in the world,  "womens"?  How many Westerners have a harem?)    I don't know where you reside, BUT- extravagance and excess have been going on ever since man discovered wealth, and currently the MOST obvious examples of, "decadence" are NOT in the West.  ALL of the world's great, early civilizations(ie: Babylon, Persia, Greece) exhibited PLENTY of, "decadence" WAY BEFORE there was a West to blame it on.
   Further, some(with the disposable income) have chosen to pursue the ultimate in sound reproduction, regardless of cost.  The State of The Art in audio equipment will never come cheaply.  There will always be those that can't afford it, are jealous and will mock(also human nature and INEVITABLE).

Halcro,
You're right, MF could mount a second arm. The Swedish arm looks not pretty much matching but he seems not caring a lot. I guess he likes the Caliburn which I do understand. He is borrowing still for a long time, why not? 😇

To ME, the Panamara is too doggy...not really a Porsche. I have a sports model with the Burmeister system....except for the bass (which gets obliterated at anything above 20 mph), the Bose is just as good.

"Abonimable"?  It's also inetivable!  

With Mikey's clout, it would seem a no-brainer for him to have another Cobra arm-wand to mount his 'cartridge under review' and be able to swap easily to his 'reference cartridge' in the other arm-wand for instant comparisons...?
I guess there is pressure on him to have 'currently available' equipment as his reference for commercial reasons?
For this reason....I suspect his Caliburn turntable may be on borrowed time...❓🤔

Halcro,

I guess MF was getting tired on exchanging carts in the Cobra, which I understand. I use a Goldfinger v2 in my Cobra via the Boulder 2008 and will never change this line. As a reviewer I would keep an arm with exchangable headshells like the Axiom or FR66s. The Kuzma 4point isn’t really bad, nevertheless I prefer the Airline,  using only matching carts for tangential scanning (without rubber).

I totally agree Thuchan.
http://i.imgur.com/r2AM7An.jpg
In fact out of the dozen or so arms I've had in my system (both vintage and modern) I'm prepared to say the Copperhead is the best on all types of cartridges,
Tellingly......I've found that it's MM cartridges rather than MCs which bring unstuck some vaunted names in the 'high-end' tonearm pantheon.
The Copperhead reigns supreme with all my MM collection (not that it's a slouch with high-compliance LOMCs).
The only problem with the Copperhead and Cobra tonearms (and now the new Viper which is really a Copperhead with a new name)....is the real pain in changing cartridges and adjusting the counterweights.

But you and I are lonely voices Thuchan in this world of tonearms, as very few audiophiles will ever have the opportunity to hear one of these miracles let alone own one..😮
And why Fremer appears to prefer the Kuzma 4-Point over his Cobra continues to puzzle me?
You had a 4-Point and an Airline at some stage didn't you?
What say you about Fremer's choice?

Having aligned a my sonic ultra Bc cartridge in the Copperhead recently I believe that the Continuum tonearms are not only rare animals but among the best sounding tonearms ever designed.

Yes Thuchan,
It seems that Mark Doehmann as head of the design team for Continuum....introduced many revolutionary ideas into the world of vinyl playback....HERE
I must admit that I wondered many times....how on earth they manufactured those Cobra and Copperhead arms?
The secret is now out..... and VPI claiming a 'first' for 3D printing of a tonearm...is slightly presumptuous?

It is interesting to learn right now from the engineers having developed Cobra and Copperhead that those great arms are 3D designs.

It was interesting to have the opportunity to compare the Continuum Copperhead and the Cobra tone arms on the Criterion. After sometime setting up the tone arms I got a point were critical listening was finally possible.

The Cobra portrays a broader sound, to some extent rounder, with a stunning foundation to top the musical experience. It does however concede a little against the Copperhead in the arenas of speed and higher frequency timbre; perhaps this is the silver wiring that the Copperhead hosts? Nothing is over emphasized such as the dynamics with idler drives.

Yes I enjoy the Copperhead immensely!

The Cobra is hosting a Clearaudio Goldfinger v2 that requires almost 87grms counter weight
Regarding ergonomics I have to say that Azimuth adjustment is far better with the Cobra, lift is not as well placed, and this should really be redesigned given the price tag!
Names? Well I would name the Cobra a “Whale” and the Copperhead a “Dolphin”…. Not that exotic I guess but that will give you an idea!

I am considering testing a Cobra arm on my Criterion. I learned that I need a special bases for the Cobra. Does anybody have experience with a Cobra mounted on a Criterion.? Maybe someone could provide me with his assessment how the two arms differ in sound on this TT...?!

Dear Thuchan: Maybe the Global Economic Crisis affect the Audio High End market niche.
In the other side it is not easy to manufacturers/designers bring something new when their products are at very high level and where customers that pay high prices for it a few months ago can buy again.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Raul,
returning from the High End 2010 in Munich yesterday I was a little dissapointed that the overall interest in analogue gear declined a little (!) in comparison to last years`s show. Of course nearly everyone runs a TT in the showroom but some contenders are missing this time, Continuum too.

Maybe most of the analogue friends are well equipped at the moment. I saw a new Thales arm and the new TW Acoustic arm. Both sounded good.

Dear Thuchan: Good you are satisfied. Remember what I posted here about the Continuum arm?, nice to read that I was not totally wrong about.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Thuchan, Thanks for the detailed description. "The Continuum Criterion is musically elegant, whilst remaining dynamic" says a lot about the quality of sound it is reproducing in your system.

Sounds like your other TT set ups has met a really stiff competition. Both in looks, technical excellence, build quality and the sound!!

Happy listening!

Alright, Eckart! :-)

Vbr,
Sam

Hi Nilthepill, here is my final verdict:


The Continuum Criterion is musically elegant, whilst remaining dynamic. The Copperhead, partnered with the Lyra Olympos, delivers an extremely open and transparent musical soundstage. The quiet, precise and stable sound is most probably due to the precise electronics partnered with the vacuum platter.

I have never enjoyed my cherished records as much as with the Continuum Criterion, this includes, jazz, vocal, rock and roll as well as other genres. It may well be the first time the Lyra Olympos encounters it’s soul mate in my system, the Copperhead.
The build and construction of all the parts serves the mechanical needs as well as being aesthetical appealing.

The unshielded cooper litz wire did benefit from an improved design which I was able to test; it is the least protected and aesthetical part of the Copperhead. I cut the wire shorter at the point it connects with the larger part of the cable. The signal has a shorter path to the Kondo KSL/SFZ transformer; the sound is improved dramatically.

A further step was taken by replacing the copper wire with a silver litz, this took the improvements further in the direction I wanted, I have learnt to appreciate the gain when silver is introduced at this stage in the signals' path.

Having used quite a few vacuum turntables, I was pleasantly surprised how silent the Continuum vacuum system is. The particular design of the vacuum system is very well designed.

This is by no means a “plug and play” system. A day or two with an experienced analog fan enabled complete and satisfactory installation. The variables made possible with neodymium armboard should be explained in the manual. I mention this again because it’s a magnificent design that is carefully and well executed.

This is definitely the best modern TT I have had the pleasure to listen to in my system. It will, I am certain, remain for a long time here in my listening room.

http://picasaweb.google.de/caochan1/ContinuumCriterion?authkey=Gv1sRgCPPGseyShuS7SA

Thucahn, any final verdict can you provide on the Continuum set up now that lived with it for few months?

Thanks!

Thanks Soundlistening, C1ferrari, Halcro and all other supporting friends.

It was a very pleasant trip. I enjoyed a lot.
Some of the travelling companions still believe I was lost in Down Under - and somehow I am. Salut

Eckart

Great journey and great report Tuchan.

I hope you keep enjoying the music.

Second that, Soundlistening...thanks, Eckart!

-Sam

I think we can all thank Thuchan for his detailed account of this adventure, Thuchan is a valued asset to this community.

Most certainly Thuchan is one of the rare “audio freaks” on this plant to indulge in such superlative comparisons, dancing between the best turntables on the planet, feeding some of the finest electronics, speakers, cables in a purpose built room!

I am certain that that Thuchan will take us on his next adventures, heaven knows what he has in mind!

a good friend of mine living a little more than 10.000 miles away asked me for a verdict on the Criteron/Copperhead. Everyone who knows me does understand that this is a very difficult job to do regarding the different cartridges, arms, pre-amps etc. i am using on and with the TTs. Nevertheless I used the same chain (Kondo KSL & M7) comparing the Micros with the Continuum.

Here is my result: As the Micros supported by the VPI flywheels are transporting the sound in a very brutal, but not cool or hard and never disguising way (you nearly hear everything) the Criterion is more on the elegant side. The Copperhead with the Olympos creates a very open and transparent sound picture. The quiteness and stableness might be a result of the precison of the electronics as well as of the new vaccuum and the platter design.

It is really fun as it is with the Micros and you may start whipping your feet cause the system plays the records in a fascinating and overwhelming way. I never enjoyed my beloved jazz-records but also other music as I do with this TT. I think it is the first time the Lyra Olympos met its perfect partner in my system - in the Copperhead.

All parts of this TT are pretty well manufactured also the Copperhead. I would recommend anyone who is using the Copperhead to be very careful when moving the tail to the right side which is recommended. Using too long screws when mounting the weights you might touch the tails surface (maybe a hint for a small design change...??).

The unshielded cooper litz might deserve a better solution in the future. I also heard that Continuum is considering providing shielded cables as DaVinci does it in a proper way. Maybe I will exchange it to a Ikeda silver litz and shield the cable when it sees the light. Some of the Criterions or Caliburn owners reported me they are sometimes able to listen to radio.

Using many vacuums I was very surprised how silent the Continuum vacuum works. The design how the vaccum tube leaves the Criterion convinces me much more than with the Caliburn.

I am happy that the Criterion does not need as much servive (hopefully) as the Caliburn does due to its bearing design. I did not want to go for a big magnetic field underneath the table, one reason why I went to the Criterion. Nevertheless it takes nearly the same amount of time to build up the system as it does with the Caliburn. It is in no way a plug and play player. The management and the possibilites of the neodym tablets for the armboard should be mentioned in the next manual. I know that Continuum service people usually do build up the tables. I like to mention this topic because it is a wonderful invention and pretty well executed.

I rather would like to use a second armboard not knowing whether it might touch the top side of the motor pulley. I didn´t see an external hole in the rear of the body for an additional tonearm cable. I guess one should bring it very close to the motor... so maybe some questions I should discuss.

As this is definitely the best modern TT I have listened to so far I will not give away the Micros in the next week...

http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/wkgiDekA80lVbDTyXivgVg?feat=directlink

Good tuntable VERY VERY OVERPRICED!!

so a Magico Mini 2 owner is calling a tt overpriced, that's rich.

btw, i'm not saying that the Magico, or any product, is overpriced. just that if one sees $30k value in a small 2-way, then one should be understanding of a $60k tt.

Good tuntable VERY VERY OVERPRICED!!

I got the information of which material the belt is, it is Pyrathane (see article of MF March 2008).

I read in Mike Fremers article that the feet of the Criterion are very special and keep vibrations under control.
This they do not very good as my experiment with RDC-feet showed. I am using the lower half of the RDC feet of Clearlight-Audio putting it under the Criterion feet - and the result is a dramatic one. All quiet at the western front!

Maybe this was a kind of saving measurement by Continuum in contrast to the Caliburn concept.

http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/tksLGRX4sT9DLC0eOZVEKw?feat=directlink

I am married Peter, yes - but not to Continuum. They are using a somehow transparent belt which fits quite well. One could also use a VPI round belt. I am not sure about the material. We have to search for. You can move the motor unit just a little to raise the tension - but it`s all right. Experimenting here needs to dismount the arm and remove the cover.

here is a closer pic of the Continuum belt

http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/RD60Hg3DnfiNeevifG98GA?feat=directlink

Hi Thuchan, great to know the table is breathing and living in your home. I have to ask, what is the belt material? Are you married to the builder's decision here? Does it place any pressure on the platter? What is the relationship to its friction component of tension vs. "stickiness"?

All my best from your west,

Peter

It depends whom you ask, but from my experience the Caliburn is bigger, heavier, got a magnetic support for the really heavy platter, a different air system with air bearing, the control unit and vacuum are different and it is equipped with the Cobra. On top of it you get the Castellan stand which is part of the system as Continuum says. Ah forgot, the amount in Dollars you may save runs a little over a 6 digit number... but you got to get the big brother...

There are some new inventions especially realized in the Criterion, also a better vacuum unit.

For building up a Caliburn system you should invest two days, a little less for the little brother.

Did you make your decision?

Forgot to ask, in what ways does the Caliburn differ from or improve upon the Criterion?

Thanks very much. The photo answers my question quite nicely. I take it that the magnetic suspension effectively isolates the tonearm mounting board from the rest of the chassis. The design is beautifully executed.

On their website, Continuum site a review of the Criterion in Tone Audio. IMO, that review was written by a person who is not qualified to evaluate a high-end turntable, due to limitations of both his system and his way of thinking. I am surprised Continuum would reference it at all.

Dear Lewm, it`s aContinuum Criterion with a Copperhead tonearm carrying a Lyra Olympos.

You`re right you cannot see details on the website of Continuum. Maybe the pic under the following link helps to answer your question. It´s a usual type drive, the belt runs around the big sub-platter which has not a smaller diameter than the top-platter.

The armboard is mounted on neodym tablets. You may change the distance between the armboards magnets and the lower magnets by turning a screw from underneath the chassis, so also when running the Criterion. This will change the sound if you like. Mark has told me this, it is not written in the manual.

http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/fomE6Ej0CEmJ4D-WeqU3EQ?feat=directlink

... hope the link works

Dear Thuchan, I am a bit confused. Which one did you end up with, Criterion or Caliburn? Also, I went to the Continuum website to try to get some idea of the design and construction of these products. They don't show any photos of the platter and motor with the belt in place. Can you tell me whether the drive is the usual type, where the belt travels around the pulley and platter only, or is there a capstan-like device or secondary pulley, to bring the belt into more continuous contact with the platter? And does the drive belt run around the perimeter of the platter or around what appears to be a smaller diameter subplatter? Thanks.

Mr D I guess it's just in my inherit nature to try to help people out though I think Ekhart will have his own ideas on this subject.
Ekhart for the most part Im happy to see the popularity of vinyl swing back for many especially among the youth.The 30 and 40 year olds, yikes did I just type that!

David

Breuninger, I have to study this click-click-clock system deeper. Maybe I am saving some sport activities between the units of my system and some more advantages will come up...

David, you are on a good track. This is my first TT I bought when I returned from Japan in 1995. I paid the amount of 5.000 Euro. No one was interested in analogue in those times...

I recently compared it (Caliburn) to my VPI HRX/ Kuzma 4 Point/ A90 combination and although there were some things that were better, the VPI had a bounce and musicality about it that I just preferred. My friend who has the Caliburn also preferred the way the HRX works with Jazz and 60's Soul.

The TW tables I am not keen on. They may been good'n'all but I can't get with the design. Also, the Raven One AC I had on demo sounded too mechanical and not a patch on the HRX. The Caliburn is beautiful to look at and if I had the funds right now I would buy one on looks alone!

David, that was a good one.......!
What a nice attempt to help Eckart out of his misery.....
Cheers,
D.

Echart,
I took one glance at your new pictures and I have come up with an easy problem solving solution.

No more moving Wilsons, no more juggling phonostages around, basically no more head aches 'err' back aches.
Directly behind the Contimuum there sits a turntable that takes up too much shelf space and is hard to dust.I can arrange for someone to pick it up and get it out of your road.

David

This is a problem us multi table users face, in fact a bona bona fide dilemma! What to do...what to do...

One solution is multiple phono stages and transformers. I went this route fearing though the long interconnect runs to the main preamp (currently a Wyetech Opal). This actually worked out well, the Wyetech has four or five line inputs so I can switch tables click-click-click. I did not notice any sonic degradation with the longer runs and the versatility is fantastic.

I stand in front of the system like a conductor with his orchestra and select the different players... Mr. Brier or Mr. Koetsu, or Mr. Mark Levinson, or Mr. van den Hull, or Mr. Carr. It's marvelous.

as a first measurement I pulled the loudspeakers some 25 cm into the room - not bad.

BTW - it`s fun moving the Wilsons around...

Breuninger,

you are absolutely right. I have to think about a new position for the stand and the caliburn. The current position is sub-optimal. Nevertheless this looks like a luxury problem but I have to reach the transformers and phono stages.

You see it never ends...

Thuchan,

Don't be afraid to move the Continuum and stand from out of the soundstage. In all its eagerness to please its new owner it may want to sing along with the music or at least annoy the singer on the stage between the speakers :)

Was that Norah Jones?

:)

Peter