Class D trivia..the world's first commercial manufactured Class D amp was from Sinclair Radionics in England in 1964. It was rated at 10 watts per channel but put out a lower number than the specs indicated. British magazine Wireless World had a article written to print on the amp but there was no many complaints from consumer's with reliability problem's that the article was withdrawn and the amp went out of production. |
Typo.."so many complaints"... |
A recent phone conversation with Dennis Deacon at D-Sonic, he mentioned the M2 and M3 series top models use the same amps. Based on recent interior pics I came across, the M3 600M mono blocks are using Abletec amps and the M3 1500M mono blocks are using Pascal amps. |
Audiozen,
From what I gather from your postings, you seem to care more about the technology or the parts used in the amps you rave about than actually trying to listen to them and posting your impressions. While technology and quality of parts matters, I have come to realize that at the end of the day it's the execution and the "sound" that matters most. I think you will do us good if you make efforts to listen to the amps you rave about and share your impressions here. |
Thanks 4orreal ... so it's not just me thinking the exact same thing. |
I do go on forums and threads of many consumers who purchase these products and read their listening experiences which is basically the same thing if I gave you an opinion of what I heard. All of us are aware that its about the sound and not just about the technology. Its a combination of both. Since retailers are dying on the vine, I don't have the time to fly all over the country to all the high end shows just to listen to gear since I don't work for a mag and I'm not a reviewer. However, reading opinions of audiophiles on other forums besides Gon who buy Class D amps will still provide an accurate picture of the sound quality of these products. |
Audiozen,
The doctrine you are preaching here is what is good for Peter is good for Paul. In aduio, there's such a thing like that if you peronally know people whose ears you can trust. So you are saying what Paul and Peter have "heard" and are singing praises about is the same as what you have "not" heard and singping praises about are the same thing? I think you have a problem somewhere. If not, why can't you come onboard with the Ncore modules, since people are singing praises about them everywhere? Don't even bring the "price" issue because that is very subjective, because I have some friends who think the money they spend on driking (alcohol) is well worth it than the money I put in my audio system. |
4orreal..I don't have a problem anywhere. Deeply involved as an Audiophile for 40 years, and having spent many years listening to tube and solid state gear in high end store sound rooms up and down the coast back in the late 70's, 80's and 90's, and having owned over ten audio systems, both tube and solid state, I think I have a pretty well seasoned handle on how to assess and evaluate very experienced Audiophiles and their reviews of their listening experiences with Class D amps. Why am I not on the Ncore band wagon and not a Bruno Putzeys groupie? I have already explained in a previous post that the Ncore NC1200 switching amp and the matching SMPS1200 power supply are not the leading cutting edge. Bruno was at the top of his game five years ago but during the past three years better designs have emerged at cheaper prices. Who is the current King of the Class D jungle? ABLETEC!! The finest and most powerful Class D amp on the planet are the Marten M-Amp mono blocks from Sweden. They weigh 100 lbs a piece and run cool. Costs is $45K a pair. These amps ain't for kiddies. The Marten's use Abletec switching amps. Erick Lichte reviewed the Marten's in Stereophile back in 2011 and described them as sounding like very powerful, rich tube amplifiers portraying voice's like Class A amps. The very best value for Class D amps on the market today is the D-Sonic M3 1200S stereo amplifier that uses two top of the line Abletec mono block amps in one chassis. The cost of the amp is a ridiculous $1675.00. The amp puts out 600 watts into 8ohms and 1200 watts into 4ohms. Don't piss $12,000.00 down the drain on a pair of Merrill Veritas amps that have a Ncore NC1200 and SMPS1200 which a set will cost you $1000.00 wholesale, which Merrill paid $2000.00 for two sets for a pair of his amps and doesn't have to dicount to retailers, indicates he's taking you for a ride and laughing all the way to the bank. Buy the D-Sonic instead and invest the remaining $10K to upgrade the rest of your system. I neglected to mention that many Audiophiles on Audiogon give very high praise to the sound quality of the current TEAC integrated amps that use Abletec. |
Audiozen, this is fascinating... How does your D-Sonic M3 1200S stereo amplifier sound like... Please share your experiences with us. Long suffering audiophrenic minds want to know! G. |
Guido..Type in on Google search D-Sonic M2 600m and you will find near the top of the page a link to an excellent review on the Polk Audio Forum of the M2 600M's from January of this year. The owner burned them in for a month before posting the review. He's running them through a pair of KEF Q speakers. He removed the cover to show the interior. Excellent piece of work. I sent the interior pic to Dennis at D-Sonic and he confirmed that its the same Abletec mono amp thats used as a pair in the D-Sonic M3 1200S. Read the review. |
Guido..since you are a online magazine reviewer, why don't you arrange for Dennis to send you a pair of the M3 600M's for you to review? After all, its what you do for a living.
Have you ever reviewed a low priced Class D amp with very high quality sound? |
I have not seen many users reviews or comments yet on how either Abletec or Pascal amps sound, much less compared to others. Technical advancements in design and execution is a good omen, but not enough alone to determine who the winners are or will be. It takes time usually before enough data points to estimate the true order of new things becomes apparent. |
Audiozen, which class D amps have you really listened to? Have you actually listened to the D-Sonic and Ncore amps? |
Uhrn Audiozen, thank you for the staggering faith you have in the financial import of my scribblings... Regretably, my labors of love on PFO are only fit to fund tasty yet conservatively priced sushi rolls dinners three or four times a year, during 50% off days, for Mrs. C. and I. For the more mundane purpose of making a living, AT&T keeps me happily busy full time on arcane matters relating to FCC/CVAA.
In answer to your question, The lowest cost amp review project that I decided to submit for editorial review and eventual publication on PFO is the Bel Canto REF500 mono. A hypothetical D-Sonics project may be an interesting addition to my candidate queue. Conversely, I hope that you will share your findings on your very own D-Sonics amp with us before long.
Here is a question... D-Sonics appears to utilize both AbleTech and Pascal.... What criteria does D-Sonics apply when selecting between one of these two core module suppliers for its amps?
G. |
First Guido..pardon my assumption referring to you as a full time reviewer. Why Dennis uses both Abletec and Pascal is for one reason only, sheer power from the Pascal
and high power from the Abletec for most speaker applications. The ALS amp in the M3 600M and the M3 1200S is the most powerful amp from Abletec. The Pascal amp puts out much higher power and Dennis only recommends the Pascal in the M3 1500M for the most extreme speaker applications if you have a King Kong speaker that really needs that much power. The Abletec amp he uses sells more than the Pascal. The chief designer at Abletec, Patrik Bostrom, whom I discussed in a previous Gon thread, has developed an application called AMS,(Adaptive Modulation servo),which is a new loop linearization technology that is very similar to the application designed by Bruno Putzeys in his Ncore NC1200 amp. Both their applications resolve and eliminate the problems with past Class D designs such as phase shifting, feed back, distortion and noise. The Abletec provides a much larger power supply than the Ncore SMPS 1200 power supply for the NC 1200. |
Thank you Audiozen. If I interpret correctly, D-Sonics may be using Abletech when maximizing a design for musicality; conversely, they implement with Pascal when maximizing for power... Is this more/less correct?
Could you qualify the term "much larger", and explain "application"?
G. |
Guido..I meant much larger power output then the Ncore set which puts out 1200 watts into 2 ohms and the Abletec puts out 2000 watts into 2 ohms. Application refers to Bruno's non linear design and Bostrom's ZVS (zero voltage switching) and his ADP,(Adaptive pole control)with his loop lineariztion technology. D-Sonic does not favor the Abletec over the Pascal for musicality in their models. As you are aware, Jeff Rowland is using a Pascal amp in his Continuum S2 integrated amplifier. The review on the D-Sonic M2 1500M amp using Pascal, in the September 2012 issue of 6Moons is very positive. Based on the tech sheets provided by Abletec, the maximum damping factor of the ALC 1000M amp used in the D-Sonic M3 600M and 1200S is 4000. |
OH... Why does D-Sonic favor Abletech in some models? If Pascal delivers higher power and is equally musical, where is the advantage of AbleTech modules for lower power implementations?
Do Pascal based and AbleTech based amps sound the same except for power rating?
Apologies AudioZen, I am seeking your live opinion. If you have not listened to these amps at all and rely on third party reports, specs, and images of internals only, please let us know.
G. |
"Apologies AudioZen, I am seeking your live opinion. If you have not listened to these amps at all and rely on third party reports, specs, and images of internals only, please let us know." (Guidocorona)
We have already asked him several times if he has listened to these class D amps or others which he criticizes (i.e. nCore), but it's obvious he hasn't as he always ignores these specific questions. So I don't take his comments on class-d amps (or other topics) seriously. |
Further adventures with D-Sonic m2 600m monos. Sorry about the long gap since I last posted about my efforts to fit these in as replacements for a well-loved pair of Atma-Sphere 100w otl's that had recently passed away after more than 20 glorious years of service. They had been purchased back when I had more money than time, but retirement has reversed that balance and I needed to find a new pair of monos that could fill their shoes in the system that had grown up around the OTLs. The remaining system reflects my priorities in balancing vinyl vs CD/SACD; MSRP for the vinyl side including cables, tweaks, stands is approximately $25k while the silver discs are handled nicely by an OPPO 95 with about $1k of accessories. Speakers are a near-mint pair of Sell B-Type 5-sided columns that are capable of playing magnificent bass into the very low 20's and do everything else quite nicely as well.
When last I posted, I had finally gotten the new amps burned in for several hundred hours when someone on this board suggested that they may need more than 1000. Not wanting to shortchange any readers out there, I chose not to post until they had been fully broken in, but I started critical listening sessions after about 300. There, the adventure really began. By the 300 hour mark, the amps sounded good enough to make me sit up and take notice that they were no joke despite their comically tiny size. They were entirely uncolored but the thing that really clamored for attention was how much more detailed they presented harmonics and how visceral the soundstage had become. It is this incredible ability to portray even the subtlest whispers of detail over the rest of the music playing (or mixed) that defines one of many areas where these amps excell. But, as any 'phile who has achieved this kind of transpanency knows, accurate, high-resolution reproduction is a 2-edged sword that reveals other problems previously masked. Thus began my series of adventures with these amps.
Installing these amps caused me to take a good hard look at all aspects of my system from set-up to VTA/SRA setup, and I had to rethink much of what i had previously believed about audio. They are so transparent that I could easily hear differences in VTA height, allowed by the JMW micrometer's smooth on-the-fly adjustments. I eventually began to measure the thickness of records before cleaning & playing, and I set the VTA mathematically for each. Later, while screwing around with some leftover brass footers and some isoblocks and oak shelves, I jury-rigged a pair of isolation platforms that really made the amps sing. The improvement was so stunning that I spent the next 4 months installing legitimate maple isolation platforms under every single component and power supply box. The amps now stand on 3 large brass footers to a 2" by 15" round maple platform that sits on 4 Mapleshade iso-blocks which sit on an 18" x .75" granite table mounted on a delightful faux French Provincial 12" fluted column that is now spiked through the carpet to the floor. There are 10 platforms in all, the prize being a 21"x27"x4" monster for the VPI SSM. These amps really respond well to vibration control and good cables. This fact was only briefly mentioned in passing in the 6Mooons review where his were set up on what turned out to be a $1k set of footers on Lord knows what kind of platforms. I ended up using a pair of PS Audio power cords that retailed for $1800 each, and a bi-wire set of silver ribbon speaker cables that cost well over the cost of the cables. Additional gains were had by experimenting with physically isolating different components and power supplies as far away from the amps as practical, and by severely reforming my cable-dressing practices.
In all, I have implemented more than 50 changes to my system set-up and usage procedures as I continue to try to maximize the joy and bliss that music coming from this rig brings. I would not have gone down this path had the D-Sonic amps so honestly pointed the way. I cannot hope to cover all in just one posting, but I am willing to focus on different aspects in further postings if anyone is still interested.
Apologies again for the long delay between postings. Please do not reply telling me that all the changes I made sounds like 50 excuses, I already know that. The real reason I have stayed away is that I would rather listen to the system than think about equipment. I can break out laughing or crying or get up and dance to some of my favorite records now. Sometimes I can't believe that my system sounds this good. For all the number freaks out there, the only scale I can think of that makes any sense to me is that my system sounds at least 2 or 3 times as good as I had ever imagined it could in my wildest dreams. |
Hi McBuddah, your experience is fascinating...
It is particularly interesting that proper seating / mechanical isolation make a significant difference for such low mass devices as the D-Sonics amps.... Nice data pointer for any future fiddlings on my part.
Can you tell us more about the sonic evolution of the amps past the 300 hours mark, and at what point did they stabilize?
Can you comment on performance/sonic differences with your old Atma-Spheres?
G. |
McBuddah: It's great to hear your story. About a month ago, i bought the d-sonic 1200s. while the amp is still opening up, i couldnt agree with you more when you say that your system hasn't sounded this great! i am still in awe about what a 24 pound box did for my system. these amps are incredible.
Rock on! keep on rockin' !
jorge |
So Mcbuddah and Jorge's D-sonics are Abletec based then?
ANy detail comparisons to any other amps in addition to those mentioned already are appreciated. Thx. |
Now that is interesting, comments from actual D-sonic users. Looking forward to further experiences from them. |
Mapman...yes, they are Abletec amps designed by Patrik Bostrom. When I first brought attention to Abletec and Pascal months ago, most on this thread including Guido never heard of these brands. During the past several months I have read at least five other reviews on Forums by owners who purchased these amps with the same impressions. In a Euro high tech magazine interview I read awhile back with Patrik Bostrom, he explained he never liked the sound of Class D amps and his goal was to design an amp that sounds and performs like the best AB amps available. He has designed at least four new circuit technologies that have patents pending. I consider Patrik at the forefront of Class D engineering and rate him #1 and Bruno Putzeys #2. Bostrom is younger than Bruno and is a rising star as a Class D design engineer. The amps are manufactured in China by Swedish company, The Etal Group, who bought Abletec earlier this and work very closely with Patrik. |
edit.."earlier this year"... |
Audiozen, I can no longer find the Abletec web site:
http://www.abletec.com/
Any ideas?
G. |
Audiozen, (and I use that pharse lightly), I quote you.
"12-19-12: Audiozen
The core problem with many Class D amps on the market such as Bel Canto, Nuforce, Red Dragon, Hypex, CIA, Wyred4Sound
and other light weight, cool running switching designs is that they are wall dependent, needing to rely on dedicated 15 or 20 amp a.c. lines since they lack large power supplies from a large bank of capacitors found in A and A/B
amps which sound better for that reason."
"If you want the best musical performance from a class D amp as the DS450M, don't waste your time on the 12 to 18 pound class D amps that will never provide the large current reserves since they lack large capacitor banks which is critically necessary to get the best performance from a full range speaker."
So, from your "expert opinion" the D-sonic can not possible sound great because it is "light weight", etc.
Several times I have asked if you EVER have heard the DS450M and you never answer. So if you have never heard it HOW can you say it sounds better then the others. And DO NOT say because of the tech and/or specs. And regardless according to you the D-sonic sounds great.
The D-sonic may sound very good, maybe even great. I can not give an OPINION as I have not heard it yet.
But I have heard the DS450M and can say IMHO it does not sound as good as the DAC, Spectron, Mola-Mola and the Veritas Amps. I would even say that the Arion Amps sound better. |
Guido, I find my self still unable to answer both questions due to the many significant changes I made to my system due to the installation of these superb little amps. I also reversed my own thinking on the priority and value of a serious, planned, methodological approach to EMI/RF control that was triggered by a surprisingly large and unexpected improvement while engaged in an experiment I had devised to prove to myself that isolation platforms were bunk. I had bought the footers for my TV system's main speakers. I had been intrigued mostly by the beauty of Maple platforms, but figured I had the rack & support concerns covered. Going from such a beginning to giving each box its own 2-4" maple platform complete with decoupling (isoblocks) under each and with coupling provided by Herbie's balls, Mapleshade micro-points and a few exotic material cones made for such a huge improvement in so many ways that I could no longer assign credit or blame to any other components, especially my previous amps that, probably too, would have sounded better in a more mature system.
Further clouding the issue of break-in improvement was my discovery of the value of VTA setting for each album, which I had never quite heard in any previous configuration, even when on-the-fly setting was supported by the arm. Before these amps, I was certain that visually leveling the arm/cart was good enough. Don't worry, be happy. With these amps, I can dial in the perfect height in about 3 or 4 trials while playing many kinds of music. Besides spotlighting the VTA settings, it also makes other arm geometry adjustments results more audible as well, much to the further evolution of my system during the first 1000 hours on the amps. It seems to me that there is some controversy about the value and procedures to set anti-skate or whether to even try on VPI arms. Since I had started to trust my own ears instead of solely on others' experiences, I decided to test it by deactivating it on my JMW by flipping up the little weight bar. After some hours of listening, I forgot about the rarely considered non-sonic benefit of anti-skate control - namely control of wide ranging stylus movement during high-level play of seriously wide bass grooves near the center of the record. I was rudely reminded of this property when I lost all self-control and juiced the volume much higher than I usually listen while playing Telarc's 1812 Overture. So began the separation of voice-coil from cone on one of my vintage Snell's 20 woofers. It took about 6 weeks to locate a sonically identical new pair that had a slightly larger frame diameter, requiring a trip to the speaker shop to have the existing holes counterbored 1/8" larger. While in the shop, they were given a checkup that discovered some separation of diaphragm from surrounds on my midranges. These were disassembled and reglued for all 4 drivers. While it was in the shop, Music Direct offered a few sets of Cardas Patented Binding post demos for half price, so I had them installed. While setting up the speakers again, I accidentally ripped the WBT plug from an early set of Siltech gold and silver interconnects I had been using between the TT and phono stage. The guys at the speaker shop seemed talented enough to trust with a repair, so I sent away for a cryo version of the Xhadow all silver ends and had those installed.
As if these weren't enough confounding variables to confuse any attempt at preserving the old setup for comparison, I also discovered the benefits of anti-static treatment after deciding to challenge Pierre's claims that mapleshde's $40 brush was really better than anything else on the market. It is so fine and versatile that I even use it on the stylus for every side I play - not just the records. When used in conjunction with a record vacuum, the improvement to the low-level retrieval is almost like replacing old records with brand new. while it might seem like a good thing to have all your records sound nearly new after even 50 years, all comparisons die when considering that every record was seriously degraded while listening to both the tube amps and the less broken-in D-Sonics.
The best I can do offer now is that by 300 hours, the amps had broken in enough to be taken seriously as indicators of overall system strengths and weaknesses. By the time several of these weaknesses had been addressed, they fit in very well and do just about everything extremely well. I concentrated on highlighting the effects their high transparency and ease have had on showing me important defects in my system and processes, but this is only one characteristic of this amp that exceeds expectations. This is not a one trick pony. I expect to add a posting or two to describe their musicality, bass quality, and soundstage characteristics as well as a few comparisons of how the system itself sounds when switching them off to listen to headphones when played through an Eddie Current triode amp with LCD-s phones. If i can find a way to repair the Atma-Spheres for less that their resale value (currently around $3k), I will probably do a comparison then, but I suspect that I would probably opt to keep the D-Sonics and sell the OTLs. |
I was shocked to learn this weekend that the M2-600Ms do not have the same Pascal technology that I had thought I bought based on the pictures in the 6 Moons review of their big brother. When I talked to Dennis before purchase, he did not mention that they were from different designs. Had I known these use Abletec cores, I probably would not have bought them at all, such is the power of reviews. Fortunately for me, the amps that I have in my house in my system have raised the musical performance bar so high that I can't even get mad. Seriously, I feel thankful and even a bit lucky that I have procrastinated so long in removing the covers to peek inside until today. Had I opened them in January when they arrived, I would have seen the mismatch to the photos and the only thing I would be able to write about firsthand would be to describe how well Dennis Deacon's 30 day return period was honored and the maturing of my system and management procedures probably never would have taken place. Damn me for a heretic in these pages if you must, but I am starting to think that the music they make is more important than who designed the cores. |
Please explain why the Abeltek and Pascal amps are technically superior to ncore because looking at their specs, I don't see it... |
McBuddah would you tell us what preamp you are using? thanks |
I recall looking at specs on line for either newer pascal or abletec (do not rremember which) and being impressed at the significantly higher switching frequency specified compared to "prior" generation Class D, like most Icepower amps out there currently, including my Bel Canto Ref 1000m monoblocks. That to me signaled technical progress that enabled sonic improvements, especially in the higher frequency treble range if done "right". I would expect good results due to technical progres if done right, so am interested to audition these newer products at some point, especially the more affordable ones. |
Styxtrekr, This is probably more detail than you asked for, but am convinced that environment is at least as important as inheritance in audio systems, and that other readers may want more depth. I am using a Classe DR-6 as a linestage. It runs to the amps in balanced mode currently through StarSound's Sonoran Plateau interconnects. The phono stage is a lozenge-shaped tube unit from a small US company called Thor and runs single-ended through Siltech cables that have been upgraded with Xhadow connectors. Both preamps take PS Audio regenerated power from Synergistics Tesla-treated power cords. The Classe is on full-time but tube-life concerns require the Thor is switched off until needed. Both use AMR Gold fuses.
Support for the components is as follows:
1. The Thor with its separate round power supply gave me fits when first installing the D-Sonics. I had been using Audio Advisors' Spiked, 3 shelf MDF and steel tube Euro racks behind each speaker with the amp on top, Thor in the middle with its power supply on the bottom on one side. The other amp rack held the Classe power supply on the bottom shelf. The middle shelf was empty. All footers were factory stock rubber feet except the main body Thor that had factory-installed Star Points brass cones. This arrangement had served me well for more than 10 years with various lesser cable combinations and 3 different turntables without any noise problems. Inserting the D-Sonics into the same vertical stack as the Thor and its power supply resulted in low-level broadcast of professional baseball games through the speaker on the side nearest the Thor. Moving it to the other channel resulted in the broadcast moving to that side. Sorting this mess out caused me to do some serious research on RF interference, but easily cured by physical placement. I tossed the racks and drafted a pair of knee-high granite end-tables into service for the amps and a beefy rock-maple 3-leg round stool about 6" taller than the end-tables allowed me enough space to separate it from the amp until the ball-game went away. Today, the stool and granite tables have been modified with Herbie's dots and all legs have been threaded to hold stainless steel carpet piercing spikes. While the top of the stool is solid maple and could serve well as a vibration sink, the Thor seemed over-sensitive to RF interference, so I ordered a custom 18" x 4" round maple platform and mapleshade isoblocks. I removed the brass points from the Thor and installed them on its power supply, which now resides on its own 15" x 2" maple platform on a built-in hutch two feet behind and four feet away from the nearest amp. The Thor currently sits on Eden Sound TerraStone footers.
2. The classe is on the center shelf of an early VPI TNT stand. Like all things VPI, it is massive and rigid 4" steel tube legs welded together with steel bars that double as shelves. each leg holds up 25 pounds of lead shot and sand. The bottom of each leg is a welded steel plate threaded for footers. The main rack, fully loaded, probably weighs more than 350 pounds. I am currently using Mapleshade threaded carpet-piercing brass footers. The bottom shelf now supports a PS Audio PPP on its own 18" x 20" x 4" maple platform. The Classe is relatively tall as preamps go, limiting me to only a 2" tall plaform without interfering with the controls. Both Classe and PPP are on Herbie's roller and cup footers. The stand came originally with a beautiful black acrylic top sized for a TNT. At 27" x 21" x 1", it seemed a bit rubbery under the more massive SSM that I have now, so I replaced that with a 4" maple platform of the same dimensions. The original top was threaded for pointed set-screws to couple it to each leg in the base. I judged this to be a point where the platform should be decoupled from the base, so I put the new one on four heavy-duty Mapleshade blocks.
3. I installed Adonis threaded brass points into the old top shelf to spike it to the floor through the carpet and it now supports a pair of 18 x 12 x 3" maple platforms so the Classe power supply and the VPI SDS can have their own isolation platforms, complete with brass footers and isoblocks. The shelf also supports a rock maple vanity seat decoupled by Herbie's Dots. This gives a good foundation to another 20" x 16" x 3" maple platform for the CD player.
4. Future plans include floor jacks in the basement under the main rack and I think I want to buy Revelation Audio silver umbilical cords on both preamps. |
McB,
I find my Class D amps to be very revealing of what it is fed. Definitely fertile ground on which to tweak! Thanks for the details. |
Mcbuddah..the Abltec amps in your M3 600M's use a new technology designed by Patrik Bostrom that utilizes a patented switching technique called phase shift modulation instead of pulse width modulation. Pascal also uses a new patented technology designed by their technical engineer Jesper Hansen called UMAC Class D. Bruno Putzeys with Ncore, Patrik Bostrom with Abletec, and Jesper Hansen with Pascal, have all designed the newest Class D technologies on the market that puts these guys as the current leader's of the newest Class D innovations. I wouldn't worry about your amps, they are excellent designs. |
As I recently posted, Patrik Bostrom designed the worlds finest Class D amplifier with Leif Olofsson, the Marten M-Amp in Sweden. If anyone wants to take the time to check out the genius of Patrik Bostrom, go to the Marten home page and click on the PDF download brochure for the M-Amp which describes in depth innovative details of the advanced technologies invented by Bostrom that reveals his impeccable shear wizardry. An excellent read. |
"As I recently posted, Patrik Bostrom designed the worlds finest Class D amplifier with Leif Olofsson, the Marten M-Amp in Sweden." (Audiozen)
The "world's finest class d amplifier"?
How can you be that sure if you have not heard them?
(I know, you are not going to answer :-) |
Hey they are only $45,000 so they sure as hell better be |
The Mark Levinson No53 class d monoblocks are only $50,000/pair. |
Guido, between this thread and a couple of others, I get a sense that you are not only technically astute, but also you've been the voice of reason in many of these discussions. That said, have you tried to get a couple of these D-Sonic amps in for a review? Please forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere.
You did a very nice review of the Veritas amps compared to your Rowland reference. Thanks for that. Rather than debating the relative superiority of this or that design/approach, or who manufacturers or patented what ... I believe many of us would benefit from comparisons based on actual listening sessions. One would think Dennis Deacon (D-SONIC) would welcome such an approach - regardless of where his modules are sourced and/or assembled. After all, the same folks that like to scream "buy 100% American" will drive their Toyota down to the Apple Store. Just my 2 cents. |
Jdec..Erick Lichte with Sterophile listened to the amps in early 2011 and came away immensely impressed describing them as sounding like a very powerful rich tube amplifier with the voicing of a Class A amp. Educate yourself and go on the Marten website and read the PDF brochure on the M-Amp and the advanced design technology by Patrik Bostrom thats applied in the amp. |
Patrik Bostrom has filed six patents in the U.S. patent office on his new Class D designs between March 2011 and December 2012. |
All, in case anyone were interested, here is the press release announcing Abletec's sale of its audio business to Etal Group. Please note that the url is slightly misleading... The title/H1 of the actual page is:
Abletec - Sale of Abletec Audio Business
http://www.abletec.com/news/abletec-acquires-anaview-ab
BTW Audiozen, when you offer lists of recommended readings, it would be helpful if you included appropriate URLs.
G. |
Old news. I already posted that information on September 3rd regarding Etal Group AB of Sweden buying Abletec earlier this year. |
Thank you Strateahed, my current reference amp is the rowland M925 monoblock, which was not factored in the Veritas article. Conversely, In the Veritas review, I make minor mention of the M312 stereo, which was my reference in some past.
G. |
Jdec..I neglected to mention the Marten amps do not use the ALC-1000 modules but a superior design thats exclusive to the M-Amp, even though the ALC-1000 has a similar design technology under the hood. Same applies to Bruno Putzeys Mola-Mola amp, which does not use the Ncore NC-1200, but a superior design derived from the 1200. What would really be the cats meow is for Guido to get his hands on the M-amp and the Mola-Mola, and compare the two designs of the Class D Kings. I suspect the M-Amp would trounce the Mola-Mola given its large transformer and massive power supply at 190,000 microfarads per mono block, and its highly advanced design technology described on the Marten website.
|
Humm.....
How about SPEC corp RSA-F3EX from Japan?
Seems like an interesting product? |
Audiozen, if I ever worked on an article project on Mola-Mola Kaluga, or an article project on the Martin amp, I would examine each device on its own merits. There will be no trouncing of any kind, one way or another.
It is worth pointing out that power supply capacity is a useful datapoint, but all by itself it is not sufficient to guestimate the overall sonic behavior/performance of a device.
G. |
Thats your perspective...not mine. But more than likely it would trounce the Mola-Mola, and it better for $30K more. |
