Before getting into the car and on the road home.........
It might be helpful to re-read the initial post which started this thread.
It is not about "do everybody has to agree upon the sonic quality of the AC Raven in its various incarnations".
Alectiong did ask for any comments and sonic impressions regarding the AAS Gabriel versus the AC3.
So far only Syntax did provide what was asked for.
If some do not like his conclusion then it is certainly not his problem.
None of us can please all the people all the time ( and honestly - none of us want to either....) - not even me..... :-) |
Dgad, I am with you. Great call out!
Look, there are a lot of ways to find satisfaction in this hobby and none are perfact...
Terry |
Syntax and his non-preference of the TW TT's.
nice explanation! |
Dear Dgad, honestly - I do not think you do Thomas W. nor his products any good in prolonging this dispute (if it is one at all) with Syntax. Syntax makes clear and sometimes too clear statements which very often do tease people.
Just think about it in a remote minute.
You are about to loose track in this thread - its not about Syntax and his non-preference of the TW TT's.
Thuchan was right - this is getting too personal and personal only.
Relax and enjoy your Raven TT - neither Syntax nor Thuchan nor me is envy you at all. |
I see some systems recently posted or reposted by Syntax & Thuchan. Thuchan, a marvelous collection of turntables and audio gear. You must have a lot of fun listening and experimenting w. all the possible setups. Is one of your turntables clearly superior to the others? If so in what way, I would love to know. It would be enlightening. No sarcasm in that just curious. It is a dream to be able to compare such equipment side by side.
It just happens that every thread where a TW table is mentioned Syntax makes a negative comment or snide remark. His first post articulates a preference. That is fine. His 2nd post goes over the line. If there was a sonic comparison where I find my Micro Seiki turntables sounded more dynamic or had more extended highs than a different table, I would mention such. Never mind that Syntax has changed from a Basis to a pair of Micro Seiki turntables, suspended on a vibraplane (nice setup by the way). When I go to Audio Shows I can say what I liked, but honestly to say what I didn't like is more difficult as there are so many contributing factors. I will mention that "it is not for me". Quite a few owners of TW tables replied but in very diplomatic means, but you can read that Syntax comments had a affect. I don't do it and don't see the point. The remarks are to demonstrate the character of the poster. I also still don't understand why Syntax changed his user name. |
It is ok, I like to read such messages. But is it allowed for me to buy US Products?
Dgad, Please?. I want to support the US economy and the discriminated listener but you write I should go back to a German forum because you don't like what you read?
Hm, you prefer censored information? Fitted with untrue rumors and some fiction? I will wait a little bit, sooner or later they will "inform" (via you) that I was responsible for 9/11....
You don't get it. that's ok for me. |
I also don't see what Syntax did so wrong? Seems to me like he just voiced his preference, plain & simple, no harm in that. I've no idea what happened in German forums but it seems like Dgad & Syntax have some personal issue that they should mend outside of this thread rather than monopolizing it? |
Dgad, it seems to me you don`t get it what syntax is expressing. You defend the designer which might be your best supplier at the time being. I know it from German forums - it runs the same way. some guys are promised something when they do something, test the next big TT or tonearm and attack people with critical remarks- and you did start it personally and you do not stop it. In my opinion it is not worth what you are promised to get... pls. don`t let us continue this bad import. |
Syntax,
It isn't about the designer. I am just against your agenda and your dishonesty. And your agenda has nothing to do with music. It is a personal agenda, and you use these forums to promote it. I don't bad talk brands, I just make comparisons. You bad talk TW constantly and for me that is a problem. Please stay on the German forums or did they kick you off? |
If someone leaves the platform of discussion and starts attacking the person or the person`s preferences I always start thinking what is the force behind him doing so? I prefer staying a little more less person-targeted...pls. join doing so. |
Dgad, what you write is not true. Probably it disturbs the internet promotion, but I guess, that is the German way to try to discredit someone who does not support the direct sale. Anyway, it is the way it is. I know some products good enough to write a few sentences about it. I respect the work from TW Acoustics, really, he is succesful and he made his way. But others did it too, but without to discredit uncomfortable opinions. but tell us, What is so remarkable about the Raven that someone should have no right to think - and write - different?
The Form?
Well, it is more or less a copy from Micro Seiki
The Platter?
Nothing special, lot have similar ones (without the AC option which was introduced from Micro Seiki)
The Belt?
Hm, had them. Nothing special, there is better out there.
The Motors?
Average, at best. I know a few owners who run it with with other units.
Technical innovation?
The material is from car industry and is about a few bucks per pound
Vibrationcontrol?
Not existing in the construction.
Engineered knowledge?
No, it is copied from other designs. No problem with that, others do it too, but the VTA adjuster is made from someone else etc.
When someone writes he thinks about a change and I write, I can understand it, what's so bad about it. do you want to force someone to stay?
Please don't be the Internet mouth from the Designer. I know how they react and it is the following way:
It starts with
-the writers System is not good enough
-the writer wanted to have it, but he didn't get
-the writer wanted a better price, but he didn't get
-the room is not good enough
-and so on....
and when nothing helps, because the writer could afford it easily but he don't want to have it because he owns better:
Then private emails will go out to discredit him personally.
That is great. I have absolutely no respect for this kind of "Marketing support". |
Alectiong,
Not sure what your system is, but for any turntable my first recommendation is before changing any turntable make sure to experiment with proper isolation to realize what you have. This upgrade alone is not subtle and IMO will be your biggest ROI. Even if you get the Da Vinci in the future you will need isolation. As the tonearm needs to be isolated, not just the platter. This of course depends on your room/setup. I honestly believe the "super turntables" out there have obtained their status by including mechanical isolation in their design. Comparing 2 turntables in the same setup where one is an isolated design and the other isn't will show significant differences if the overall isolation of the non-suspended design is poor and will quickly be reflected in the sound. |
Syntax,
Do I need to quote you above? And then you make a statement that you bash nothing. Every thread that mentions TW, you have to stick in your comment. Many of us on this forum and quite a few other forums know you have a grudge, but to put it forth repeatedly is unprofessional and poor.
I have never promoted any equipment beyond my personal experience, and even as such I keep it in a very kind tone. I have compared the Raven AC to a much less expensive turntable and have clearly characterized the differences as I heard them in my system. I have not ever criticized any other turntable, even though I have a good friendship with TW.
I also haven't tried to hide myself by changing my user name, and system page so that others might not identify me. And, isn't it clearly against Audiogon rules to change your user name. I wonder for what purpose this was done.
On to the subject of turntables, I will gladly give an honest account of my impressions of the Black Night shortly. It will be in context of my system in comparison to digital as the Raven is no longer with me. I honestly don't know anyone who can honestly compare 2 turntables in an absolute equal setup. There are so many limitations and the only way would be to do the comparison over time. I have learned that no 2 of the same cartridges sound 100% the same. But I can say that having no vinyl in my system for quite a long time now has been extremely depressing. As for the Da Vinci table, it might be very good. One thing I have learned the hard way is the equipment merry go round can often lead to dissappointment. Before my Raven flew away (loved to make that pun), I had 2 of my cartridges locked in perfect setup. I hope I can duplicate it again. Thank g-d for the Wally Tractor as that does help a lot.
I was against a change purely on the difficultly in duplicating the setup the next time around. But then the Black Night has a few design parameters that more than tempted me. In the end I buckled. |
I have listened to this TT (with a C/audio cartridge). It offered a beautiful musical experience, and even hitherto noisy material sounded clear.
Whether you should switch to an AAS or not -- I don't know. If there's nothing wrong with your music, why not just stick to what you have? Perhaps upgrade your cartridge? Your phono?
Regards |
I have heard different versions of the DaVinci AAS Gabriel. The new Gabriel uses bigger magnetic platters. I have heard the new version with a Grandezza arm and a Zyx UNIverse. In my opinion it is one of the Top-TTs currently available. I think the Raven if powered by a very good drive is a fine machine too (so why should you sell) but the big DaVinci is somehow also a design object, especially if you position more tonearm stands around the table. Regarding the prices of Gabriel and the new Raven ??? |
Dgad, that is not true. I bash nothing. I listened to that table more than a dozen times and there are differences between it and others. It is a discussion like everything else (cartridges etc.).
I can understand, when someone thinks about a change. Why not? Is it a religion? I am sorry, that I am not one of those, who support the internet sales based on private contacts to a manufacturer. I don't have such contacts. I am a regular customer who gets all from Dealers, not from direct delivery from manufacturer like you.
I am fine, when you can't hear differences, but please don't badmouth me. |
Thomas heisig (Syntax) will bash a Raven any chance he gets. Please judge table differences based on overall user feedback & design & your personal experience. |
Downunder
My comments wre an interpretation of syntax's observation. They were not my own observations.
I am happy with my ac-1 |
You could always upgrade your TW AC-3 to the black Knight?
What are you finding that your AC-3 is not giving you?
cheers |
Thats a good one! That can either be a very eciting experience or a very nervous one |
it is like waiting for the results of a Pregnancy Test during the whole listening session. |
Hey Syntax, what dont you like about the raven ac in comparison to davinci or basis? |
I listened to it 1-2 times, but I couldn't make a comparison. But there is worse out there.
Well, a Walker table can be interesting, but whatever you do, it will influence the sound and no one knows, is it better or is it only different. The DaVinci is a different solution and you can use any Arm you want. I would prefer it to a Raven any minute of the day, but the latest one (forgot the name) from DaVinci could be interesting too. It has some design solutions from the AAS. |
Looks like trophy audio too me, so I'd stay with the Raven AC3 - happy listening to all MY Lps and get some more.
But, that may just be a bit boring?
Want to drive "Porsche", go get one and get it out of your system while you can. |
For this amount of money, i will go for the Walker turntable and stay happy listening to all my Lps. |
