Hello,
I have 2 x A45 which gives two bridged mono 300W.
The A45 has a Damping Factor 200 while the new A46 has a damping of 500!
This difference is remarkable and change much of how that sound is controlled. The higher the damping, the higher the sound is clear, crips. This increases the 3D. Conversely, the sound is more dry, less vibrato, harmonics and warmth seems a little less emphasized ...
In this sense, in the past, the Krell have damping factor of 50, Bryston 500 and crown microphone 5000 ...
When I put my amps in mono I lost damping factor and this is clearly heard ...
For my taste I prefer the damping around 200, this approach really musical instruments played by my son ... (guitar, drum, etc.)
I think 500 is too high and is more up to the job of mixing where it is important to place the instrument in space, to be surgical what ;-)
Last on the amps ... We never have enough power! At 300W class A mono ... even if I have hp strong effective is incomparable, heavy metal and large choir of Carl Orff never are unstable or short of breath ...
Accuphase make silver cables and the difference (regardless supplier) is important ... For my part I have SCSI 2 VDH connected to JBL studio monitor 4343 (93dB / w) refurbish.
For the preamp. I bought the 2820 because I did not have a phono section apart instead ... too much cable etc ... But I can say that I have an AC 500 and AC PS 1200 and PS WOOW difference. ..
I have no doubt that the PS300 is higher, but for me the monetary bar is too high. If you have the money: let do it !! :-))
I conclude by saying that the room is 50% of the final sound so I totally agree with the comment on the addition of a parametric equalizer. Although it can not eliminate modal node of a room, and a modal cancellation can be corrected. Also, positioning, and treatment are essential ... just to double the bet or rather not to lose half your pleasure ...
My 2 cents. |
Cool, sounds good. Congrats on the new preamp. And from reading my posts here, I'm glad I waited for the A-70 to come out! I'm still waiting to see what will replace the C-27. |
Just a short post to let you guys know that I have replaced the C-2810 pre-amp with the C-3800 pre-amp. I'll elaborate on the differences once the C-3800 is fully burned in. |
Nvp,
Here's a link to one Japanese Grand Prix Awards for cabling to use as guideline :
http://vgp.phileweb.com/vgp2013_summer/vgp_p2_13.html
I'm currently using the AIM NA3-R or AQ Diamond RJ/E, both to very good effect albeit
slightly different presentations.
Another well reputed one is the Acoustic Revive LAN which should be better distributed
and cheaper too (around $250 for 1m piece). The AIM, AFAIK, is now only being sold
to/within Japan.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive3/1.html |
Nvp: Ok, thanks for your answer. He doesn't have the units for demo. Everything is special order in this instance. The dealer is 4 hours from here in Las Vegas. He's in California. There is no Accuphase dealer here. The only way to audition Accuphase is at CES, which I have done in the past 4 years. Ok, that's a good point about the amp. I'll take that into consideration. Also, I have a couple of questiona, do you know if the A-65 will be replaced any time soon? I noticed that the A-65 has been around for a while...And will the A-65 be powerful enough to drive my JBLs? The JBLs are 94 db sensitivity and 6 Ohms impedance. |
Dave, it is hard to say which choice will yield the best result. Since you buy them form a dealer, can't you do a test?If he is not willing to come over with the units, maybe you can take your speaker to his show room. Nonetheless, my advice will be to get the A-65, but only because it will finalize the search for an amp.
Bvdiman, thanks for the additional info regarding the "pre vs. no pre" issue. I am certainly not surprised to hear that the sound is better when using your pre-amp. After all you use one of the most expensive pre-amps available. It would have been terrible if things where different. :)
Regarding the pre vs. cd player upgrade, it will be much more expensive to upgrade my pre-amp than to buy a DP-800/DC-801 combo. However, while looking at Finite Elemente rack that could accommodate all these Accuphase boxes, I have realized that I actually do not have enough space in my room for such a rack. So, I need to solve this problem first.
Regarding the HS-link cable, I have stumbled on another forum (I've forgotten where) on a thread where you have talked about the top of the line Audioquest network cable and its benefits. I did not play at all with cables so far. The reason is that I am of the opinion that cables are for fine tuning a system with which one is completely happy. Regarding my cables, initially I have used some Audioquest balanced cables (a middle range model, I have forgotten which one). Now I am using two normal but short internet cables as these sounded better than the Audioquests. Once I've settled for a "final" player, I will certainly experiment with cables. Beside Audioquest Diamond, what else do you recommend? |
Ok, I'm debating on either getting the A-65 amp first, or the C-2420 + C27 first. I'm not able to afford all 3 units at once even though I'm getting a pretty good deal from the dealer. Which would make the most difference in sound in my system? The amp or the pre + phono preamps. Currently running the Bryston 4BSST amp and BP6P preamp. Thanks in advance for your help! |
Hi Nvp,
Some further thoughts..
After having trialled for couple more days :
*Without Pre ~ The direct/rawness of detail/transparency/resolution and more upfront presentation as always seem impressive and fun to listen to initially, but sure enough signs of fatigue sets in given longer periods.
*With Pre ~ Soundstage sounded more expansive with better dimensionality, presented in a far more relaxed and enjoyable/addicting manner, no fatigue here. *Overall better dynamics and PRAT too, closer to that of live performances.
*However I'm here using same source for comparisons, where else in your case, a supposedly superior one substituting the Pre set-up, so results will invariably differ.
Do weigh into your consideration also that perhaps buying an excellent Pre is after-all the much wiser investment (longer term one) compared to buying a SOTA Cdp? *Either way, just make sure the 800/801 combo you are considering are priced right, one which can be re-sold later at little/no loss to you. ;)
Btw. Do you use HS-link (RJ/E) as interface into your DG? If yes, do try one of the upgraded cables I mentioned above. A worthwhile upgrade for not much money, imo. |
Hi Nvp, why thank you for the invite! I really would like to hear the differences. Here in the US, the A-65 is a whole $9k more than the A-46. So, I really am not able to afford it. If I get it from you know where, yes I would. Also, I don't believe there's a dealer over here where you can compare both amps! I don't get it, the importer wants all of this money, but there's hardly anywhere to audition! Except for CES, really. Imagine that! I will look into the DG-38 as well. Talk to you soon! |
Hi Dave, too bad you are not living close to Amsterdam. I'll be happy to demonstrate the A-65 vs. A-45 amps for you. :)
Hi Bvdiman. Thanks for your answer. I am thinking quite seriously to buy a 801/800 but I will need to sell my A-45 and DP-600 first. I'll keep my C-2410 pre-amp for the time being, as I use quite often its balance control button. The 900/901 is certainly a no-go as here it is 2 times more expensive than the 801/800 combo. Regarding the DG-38 unit, I still use it. In fact, I can not recommend this unit enough. Its room correction function should be mandatory to any serious system. |
Hi Bvdiman,
You're welcome! Ok, well that ain't too bad to say the least! :D
Take care! |
Hi Dave, thanks!
Not quite Nine yet, still on Seven creeping up ever so slowly at the moment.. ;P
Nvp,
As per your request which aroused my curiosity, on a whim I have just re-tried plugging the 900/901 direct to A-200s again (this time using Siltech Empress DC XLR as Ic), and A-B'd them for a bit.
Although my immediate preference was still firmly with pre in chain, surprisingly realized that with good IC, the Accuphase combo direct to amp did managed damn fine sounding results too.. Hence can imagine how some would opt to run them this way forgoing pre's.
If you are currently running single digital source only, in your position, I'd opt first for the 800/801 combo (but do check how much differ 800's output is from 900's), throw in the best Ic you could into your A-65 and I believe you are set.
Will take one heck of an excellent/sota pre to beat that and not to mention the hefty $um involved. Further, you have, and still using the DG correction unit right?
*Add in pre later, only when you happened upon a truly sota one at a truly good price. ;) |
Nvp, I understand. I'm glad you agree on the A-46. I'm on the fence between that one and the A-65. I can only go by your comments here at the moment. I don't believe there's a dealer here in the US where you can compare both amps! It's a damn shame, really. So, I will have to rely on CES to listen to Accuphase equipment in general. As I've been doing for the last 4-5 years! |
I for one do not buy the "custom made" hype. IMO it is like "limited edition", which in my book means "limited to the number we can sell". :) |
Dave, what I meant to say is that because the C-2420 & A-46 combo is a bit more expensive than a A-65 one might want to consider the second alternative if he/she has a single source, i.e. a cd player with a good volume control. Of course, the A-46 amp is a very good amp and it will please the vast majority of audio-files.
Bvdiman, did you try to bypass your FM Acoustics pre-amp and feed the signal from the DC-900/DP-901 player directly into the the A-200 amps (the DC- 900/DP-901 has a built in volume control)? I am curious what the result would be as I am having a bit of a dilemma right now, i.e. sell my C-2410/A-45/DP-600 and get a DP-800/DP-801 or sell the A-45/C-2410 and get a better Accuphase preamp (e.g. C-2810 or C-2820). |
Custom made? That's cool, I didn't know that. |
Nvp
Yes it is 47000uF/63V Nichicon LNR series Capacitors custom made by Nichicon for Accuphase my mistake. The A-65 uses 82000uF capacitors looks like they are 89mm or 3.5 inches in diameter beast. I am sure they are LNT caps at 105C. Custom made by Nichicon for Accuphase. |
Hi Nvp,
Sure, if the cd player or dac has a volume control, the preamp can be bypassed.
I see, but the A-65 is about twice the price of the A-46. 11k for the A-65 vs. around 6k for the A-46. In Japanese Yen. Whether you wanna buy from Japan is up to you. The prices are much lower. Anyway, if one is unable to afford the A-65, why not the A-46? Realistically, the A-46 is a great amp, and I'd say it will please the vast majority of audiophiles out there. |
Bvdiman, please report back after you have tried the Accuphase PS units. I am very interested to hear your findings.
Renjy651, the A-46 power amp has two Nichicon capacitors of 47k micro Farads each. Also, they are 85 Celsius degrees not 105. What you have quoted resembles the specs of the A-65 power amp which has 82k micro Farads caps. The A-65 probably has 105 Celsius degrees caps as it gets much much hotter than the A-45. However, I am not 100 percent sure about this as the picture of the caps in the manual is poor and this figure can not be read properly.
I currently have both the A-45 and A-65 in my system. As far as I know the A-46 is a bit more powerful than the A-45, but overall the two amps are comparable. On the other hand, the difference between the A-45 and the A-65 is huge. Since a pre-amp might not be needed with the A-65 (read my last post before this one for some more details), I urge anyone who is planing to buy a A-46 to also listen the A-65.
|
Hi Renjy651,
I am too, as you know!
Yes, you can run 2 speakers, and there is an a+b buttons.
That's cool, good to know... |
I am very interested in Accuphase A-46. The reason you can run two pairs of speakers? Is there a button for A+B like my Luxman L-507U?
Looking at the power supply section it uses two 83000uF Nichicon LNT series capacitors at 105C. That is almost 200KuF in capacitance will have no problems with any speakers. |
Wow Bvdiman, you have the A-200s? You must be on cloud 9. I heard those @ CES, and the sound was amazing. Enjoy. |
Nvp,
Congrats on your A-65 acquisition, they should be awesome.
I had inadvertently deleted my old system page while trying to edit things. It's dated
anyway, will post latest when I find the time to take some new pics. In the meantime
just laying low whilst enjoying the A-200s and DP-900/DC-901 settling down and
rounding in to form nicely. With few recent cable upgrades, better than I had
expected, so big smile here. Next up probably trying out their Power Supply units..
but one (baby) step at a time. ;)
Labo,
Have you tried playing with the HS-Link interfacing your DP-800 > DC-801?
I did with 900s, and the improvement wrought over the standard Accuphase's green
freebie cable is not subtle and definitely a worthwhile upgrade. Few cables worth
noting/checking out are Acoustic Revive Lan-1.0PA, AIM Shieldio NA3-R, and
Audioquest Diamond Ethernet RJ/E. Do give them a go and let us know. Goodluck. |
Labo, congratulation for the new C-2820 pre-amp and thanks for sharing
your experience with us. I should say that what you have reported (i.e. the C-
2820 being much better than the C-2410) is very much in line with my recent
experience.
I have recently bought an A-65 power amp - mostly because it had a very
decent price and also because I was hopping to end the search for a power
amp. Since my A-45 amp has much more power than my 104 dB Avantgarde
speakers need, I did not expected a significant difference. However, I have
quickly realize that my assumptions were incorrect. Compared to
the A-45, the A-65 has: 1) a much more relaxed, controlled and fuller
presentation of the bass, and 2) a more stable and better defined stereo
image and sound stage. The A-65 also retrieves more details than the A-45.
I should also say that I have found the A-45 & C-2410 & DP-600 combo to
sound slightly inferior (but overall comparable) to the A-65 + DP-600 combo,
i.e. the C-2410 pre-amp is bypassed and the signal of the DP-600 cd player
is fed directly into the power amp. On the other hand, I have preferred the A-
65 & C-2410 & DP-600 combo over the A-65 + DP-600 combo.
Dave, it's good to hear you are reconsidering Accuphase. |
Audiozen, sorry for my very late reply. I too am glad the spirits have calmed down. Communication between people (both verbal and in writing) is a difficult thing. Debates like this often happen between passionate individuals. :) Even though sometimes I disagree with you conclusions and/or approach, I certainly respect the fact that your opinions are based on personal research (which sometimes seems to be quite involved, e.g. your thread WHEN DID DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY BEGIN?). Coming back to the C-2810, C-2820 and C-3800 pre-amps, I still believe that, unlike the C-3800, the C-28XX models do not have a balance AAVA volume control. Since I did not do a direct comparison of these products, and also because of a very recent experience (read my next post), I will refrain to make further speculations. |
Well, after much deliberation, and careful research, I am slowly coming back to Accuphase, even though it's much more expensive than Pass Labs. Pass Labs is very good, but it looks to me that Accuphase is more musical and accurate. What I really would like to do is have a "shoot out" between the 2 brands. Hopefully I'll make a final decision! The 3 units I'm looking at are the C-2420 preamp, A-46 amp, and C-27 phono stage. I think this would really be a dynamite combo. |
Hey,
I have recently uppgraded from Accuphase C-2410 to C-2820.
I have to say I am very impressed.For example the perspective is rocksteady, the soundstage is wider and there is considerable more depth. Also ther is more ait around the instruments.You can easy follow all instruments for example in a pianoquintett of Schumann.There is a tremendous dynamic in for exampel a record of Bruckners great mass for large orchester and Choir and you can mor easy hear throug and follow the diffrent lines in the Choir.Today the C-2820 have bin runned 275 houres.I also own Accuphas A-45 And Accuphse Sacd-combo DP-800/DC-801- The speakers are 3,5-ways floorstanders from Danish Audiovector, very sensitive 92 dB. |
Thank You Nvp for your positive, polite response. My hope is to keep things civil even though I have a tendency to have an acidic bite from time to time. I'll refrain and keep things polite. Looking at a cutaway of the Attenuator
Potentiometer interior in the C-2820 appears to have a better gear drive and a better Attenuator pot and housing than the one in the C-3800. So it is a slightly improved AVAA design over the C-3800. As I already mentioned, the C-3800 is a slow seller nowadays and word is it will be put out of production within the foreseeable future. |
Audiozen, do not worry about typos we all type in hurry. (Plus English is not
my first language, so I do not always pick up on them and often make many
myself.)
Now, my knowledge of circuit boards is certainly limited, but it does not come
from internet browsing and/or hi-end dealers. That is, I am a physicist doing
research in university for more than 10 years now, who in his last year of
university has taken a course on advance physics lab techniques that have
applications in industry, e.g. chemical vapor deposition (CVB), laser
lithography (LL), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), and a few more others.
Since I caught this hi-fi bug, I have returned quite a few time to those lecture
notes. Regarding printed circuit boards (PCB), the lectures about LL mentioned
two thing that are of interest here: 1) that when it comes to printed circuit
boards teflon (i.e. fluorocarbon) is considered an exotic material (which while
expensive yields very good dielectric constants and dissipation factors), and
2) that most often the substrate is not pure teflon (i.e. fluorocarbon) but it
uses glass cloth and fluorocarbon resin.
I have no doubt that there are very expensive teflon PCBs and extremely
expensive teflon PCBs. It may be possible that, unlike in the C-2810 where
they used expensive PCBs, in the C-2820 Accuphase went for extremely
expensive PCBs. However, one can not pick that up from the way the terms
"teflon", "fluorocarbon resin" and "glass cloth fluorocarbon resin" are used in
the Accuphase brochures and/or by Accuphase dealers. IMO it is more
important to realize that we talk about very small returns here as these
techniques deal with 2nd and 3rd order effects. The weak point of most C-
2820 and C-3800 owners (also C-2810 for that matter) is the room which
induces zero order effects, i.e. 100 to 1000 times larger than what it is gain
by using exotic material for the circuit boards.
According to Accuphase the most important advancement in C-2820 is
further refined AAVA volume control which was derived from the C-3800. I
must admit that I find this claim by Accuphase intriguing. In the C-3800 pre-
amp, the AAVA circuit is design as a balanced network, which IMO does not
seem to be the case in the C-2820. (The schematics in the C-3800 manual
clearly show a balanced AAVA, whereas the schematics in the C-2820 manual
show a design that is not balanced and that is very similar to the one in C-
2810). What I would say that the C-2820 borrows from the C-3800, is the
superior power supplies but with less caps. (The C-2810 seems to have the
transformers developed for the older C-2800 model). This should make it
more dynamic than the C-2810. Though, ultimately this will depend
sensitively on the power amp and the speakers that are used.
Here comes my take on this matter, or what I call dealer's talk vs. the
"poor's man" talk, i.e. me. The difference between the C-2810 and
C-2820 is roughly 10K and the difference between the C-2820 and the C-
3800 is also about 10K (at least in Europe). The dealers, will always tell one
that a C-2410 is almost a C-2810, that a C-2420 is almost a C-2820 or that
a C-2820 is almost a C-3800. Whereas I would tell anyone to take the 10K
difference, to do some bargaining with the dealer and to get a DG-48 room
correction system together with a "smaller" preamp. A C-2810 + DG-48 will
yield better results than a C-2820, or a C-2820 + DDG-48 will yield better
results than a C-3800. As mentioned, the room affects the sound significantly
and the Accuphase DG-48 (also DG-38) do a marvelous job at correcting this.
In the end, I should maybe apologies to the rest of the contributors here for
"brutally" attacking Audiozen and going way off topic in my debate with him. I
wrote my posts yesterday after reading Audiozen's thread above on PMC vs.
Salk speakers. I lost my patience with him when I read that he never listen the
C-2820 (as I also remembered some of his other posts and my previous
encounters with him here on Audiogon).
I will be glad to hear Audiozen's opinions on the AAVA volume control in C-
2820 vs. the on in C-3800. Not as a preach but as a constructive discussion.
Paul |
another typo..."Absurd"..must be my dementia.. |
Ooops...typo..fluorocarbon. |
Nvp... You are in outer space and LaLa land on the tech info on the two Pre-amps. The C-2810 uses teflon copper circuit boards. The glass cloth flourocarbon resin boards are only used in the C-3800 and the new C-2820. This board material is extremely expensive and provides a much lower noise floor. Incremental improvement? Absurb. Do your homework and go buy a six pack. |
I have never said the C-2820 is a minor update over the C-2810. Only that the difference between them can not be qualified as a quantum leap. (The C- 2800, C-2810 and C-2820 pre-amps belong to the same family and the differences between them are incremental.) You on the other hand have listed circuit boards made of fluorocarbon resin as one of the important advancements in C-2820 over C-2810. As I've mentioned, you have no point. Both have circuits boards of fluorocarbon. It is certainly not the first time I see you giving advices that are silly and/or incorrect. Instead of continuing to argue with you or to expose your ignorance. I will let the readers figure out for themselves how trustable you really are by inviting them to glance at two of your previous threads: World's best Pre-amp for $10K and above? PMC vs. Salk Sound Speakers. Which is better? |
Baloney. I have no idea who Dave is. Arturo is the only exclusive wholesale Distributor for
Accuphase in the United States. He is very objective in his assessment and has more experience with Accuphase than anyone else in the country. He is not my retail dealer. He is a wholesaler. Why would he want to jeopardize the sales of the C-3800? You are really showing your ignorance referring to the manuals.
I could give two craps about the manuals. I am specifically
referring to the technical information in the Catalog pages and interior photo's on the Accuphase website. You have no idea what your talking about by stating the C-2820 is a minor change from the C-2810. The C-2820 is a whole new creature. |
Audiozen,
First, I have actually read the user manuals of the C-2810 and C-2820 (also of C-2800) pre-amps, and also compared the guts of these pre-amps based on what it is written in the manuals. The three pre-amps are part of the same family and share very similar circuits layout and circuit boards. However, unlike you, I know that teflon is - a polymer made of fluoro-carbon. (Teflon is also known as PTFE, i.e. polytetrafluoroethylene.) Now if you read the manuals of the older Accuphase premium preamps, e.g. C-2800 and C-290V, you will learn that Accuphase is using flouro-carbon resin (sometimes referred in the manual as "flourocarbon" resin other times as teflon) for its circuit boards since 1999. Thus, not such a new thing!
Second, Japan is the most important market for Accuphase. They sell more than 50 percent of their production locally! The second largest market for Accuphase is Germany, and chances are that USA represent a very small (if not insignificant) percent of the Accuphase market. Since in Japan the C-3800 is only 50 percent more expensive than the C-2820, I am very sure Accuphase sells enough C-3800 in Japan, and that it is not at all worried by the low numbers of C-3800 sold in USA. In fact, if you would know anything about Accuphase (e.g. how arrogant and pride their owners are, or the fact that the important Accuphase international distributors are chosen among relatives of the Accuphase owners) you would not for a second claim that Accuphase dumped they top of the line technology into the C-2820 preamp just because the C-3800 was too expensive to be sold in USA. That is dealer talk!
Third, unlike you, I find it silly to express my opinions here when I do not have first hand experience with a product. (A year ago you told me and Dave that the C-2820 gives 98% of the performance of C-3800 but admitted that you have never listen the C-2810 and the C-2820; now after you have apparently listened the C-2810, you say that the C-2820 gives only 90% of the performance of C-3800. How do you come up with these numbers?). Moreover, I find it very wrong to give advice to somebody based on what you were told by your dealer, or on experience gain only by reading reviews and/or user manuals (which you obviously do not fully understand)! |
Nvp..you obviously haven't read the technical changes on the Accuphase website. Just one of many major changes is using superior circuit boards that were not in the C-2810 such as glass cloth flourocarbin resin boards. The power supply in the 2820 is larger with bigger toroidal transformers and larger capacitors. The multiple circuit boards have a larger amount of small caps and components.
This is a major upgrade not a minor one and Accuphase has a reputation when putting out new models to put them on a higher level than the previous one. I was off the mark saying 98% but it is accurate that Arturo did state 90%. Again, the reason for the 2820 is that the C-3800 is a slow mover for Accuphase since it sells for over $40K and the 2820 will capture greater buying power since its almost half the price. |
Bvdiman, what has happened with you virtual system page? I've just looked for it, hoping you had a chance to test the DG-38 and the PD-1220 but I was not able to find it. I also do not see it anymore next to your avatar. |
Audiozen, I do not agree with what you are saying. Firstly, with Accuphase (and any serious manufactures for that matter) there are no quantum leaps in performance from one generation to the other. The new generation is most often "only" a fine tuned version of the previous one. Sometimes this is for the better other times is not. In my experience, to talk about significant advancements in Accuphase products one has to compare products that are at least two generations apart. Secondly, in the hope of selling a C-2820 any dealer will tell you any kind of crap, e.g. last time we talk about Accuphase preamps you said that Arturo from Axiss told you that the C-2820 puts out 98% of the performance of C-3800. Now he things it is only 90% thereĀ
|
Classact..I have heard the C-2810 but not the C-2820. The C-2820 is a far superior design to the 2810 and is definitely in the same league as the C-3800. The whole idea behind the C-2820 was to make a Preamp that comes within inches of the C-3800. Arturo with Axiss
in CA. is the Accuphase Distributor in the States and listened to the C-2820 at a show in Tokyo in late 2011 and told me its 90% of the performance of the C-3800. Jonathan with Perfect Note Audio in Mass. who is one of the top two Accuphase retailers in the country says the same thing. The C-3800 does not sell well for Accuphase so they decided to dump all their C-3800 tech stuff into the C-2820. The C-2820 has a newer and better designed volume gain control that is superior to the one in the C-3800. If you can afford it, the C-2820 is a steal compared to the C-3800. |
Hi Bvdiman,
Well, it was just my opinion. I'm sure it's an excellent unit that runs rings around the competition. I know that FM is excellent stuff, but again, the price! lol.
Yes, I agree about Pass. I don't think it's as good as FM overall, but I only can afford so much, and the Pass Labs is in my price range for Class A amps.
Yes, I am using those JBLs. I really don't need stands at the moment, because the tweeters are ear level when I sit down on my listening sofa. Thanks for the video and for the suggestion!
Thanks and take care. |
Hi Dave,
Agree.. That I come to think of it, yes the 268 is definitely silly money and cost wise
not in proportion with the rest of my system.. ;P But I just can't seem able to rid it yet
for what they do so well (linearizing). Rendering all my precious older nostalgic CDs
(hundreds of which are rather poorly recorded) pretty much 'very' listenable, and that's
what matters most to me ~ the musical content. Hardly ever listen to perfect audiophile
pressings anymore nowadays, most of which I found boring ~ of course when so, with
linearizer setting off / bypassed mode would be best.
Pass is yet another highly reputable and well regarded marque in the 'A' turf. Bet they
could sound just as wonderful, or probably even better.. It's all in the synergy. Follow
your heart.
On a slightly different note, I see you are currently using JBL S4700? Might be better to
have them on stands, no..? Stumbled upon this on YouTube, hence visualized how your
system would be with Accuphase, here's the link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eplKGurrnc
Great looking and sounding speakers for sure.. Enjoy! |
Hi Bvdiman,
Imo, $100k USD is silly money to pay for a preamp. I appreciate the fixed price policy and the resale value. I got $20k for the 611 too back in '05, unreconditioned as well.
Anyway, Accuphase is silly money here in the US. I appreciate the build quality and technology (Accuphase just might be the most high tech brand)but this distributor here is a bit off his rocker, so to speak. But, if he's selling at these inflated prices, then there's no chance they will be lowered anytime soon!
So, for me, Pass Labs is the ticket at this time. It's not really cheap per se, but when you're dealing in pure Class A for both amps and preamps, it's never cheap. Nelson Pass is a competent and humble designer. The people that run the company are pretty nice guys too. No, it's not the best, but it's affordable to me, and it sounds and is built damn good. |
Full Accuphase system driving the late F.Serblin's last masterpiece Ktema :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnQ7MzjOotE |
Hi Bvdiman, I have just seen on your system page that you have bough a pair
of A-100 mono blocks and also the DP-900/DC-901 SACD player.
Congratulations! (In my first post to you here, I was not aware of this and I
was actually wondering why are you interested in Accuphase - I knew that you
are a FM Acoustics owner. I will follow your system page with interest for a
Accuphase vs. FM Acustics comparison.)
Dave, it seems to me that compare to the FM Acoustics prices, the Accuphase
prices
(at least of the components in which the two of us are interested) are peanuts
money. :)
Classact, I find it interesting that you have preferred the A-46 amp over the
P-6100 amp. My impression was that the P-6100 is better than my A-45
amp, while, on the other hand, I have found the A-45 and the A-45
comparable. Beside more "features", the A-46 also has more "drive", i.e. more
power, than the A-45 (but more power is something that I simply do not need
with my current speakers.) |
Dave,
When I bought my 268, CHF rate was about .90c to the dollar, so @CHF110k paid
$100k. They have since increased the rrp a little and with current exchange, a friend
paid $128-130k for his just a couple of months ago.
Unlike most other brands, FMA strictly adhere to their fixed pricing policy. Which is
fair to all and a good thing for their residual value IMO. Was actually offered 100k for
mine recently by a another friend. Not bad at all considering it used for 4yrs.. (of
course it's in as new cond.) ;)
My 611 which I bought new in '93 @36k, sold them last year and still got close to 20k
for it. Again, not bad for a 20yrs old un-reconditioned amp! So there you go speaking
of their value..
*Sorry if a little off topic. |
Hi Bvdiman,
Yeah, thanks. The FM has not really been upgraded that much as far as I can tell. It's more of an evolutionary rather than revolutionary changes. I could be wrong, however, since I don't work over there to see what redesigning they did.
Anyway, the prices are ridiculous really. For a 711 MK. II, a 255 MK II preamp, 222 MK. III phono stage, and cables, you're looking at well over $150,000 USD.
The resale value on FM is rather good, but will you get at least $100,000 on the above units remains to be seen. |
Nvp, was curious because with A-200s there are 2 set of speaker outputs per mono
amp as well, but no select switches to be found. Well, perhaps more for bi-wiring / bi-
amping purpose in this case I assume?
Classact, thanks for your feedback!
Re : Accuphase - FMA, will jot brief impression in my system's page so as not to run this
thread off its course. *My A-200s had around 150hrs on them currently. Anyway, looks
like Dave has had much experience with FMA too having owned them before. |
Well, I used to own FM Acoustics (I bought them 20 years ago; Resolution Series 244C preamp and 611 amp,) and the sound was great. But, I needed more volume, and I set the gain too high on the amp. This caused the amp to go into thermal shutdown with the volume up most of the way. So you gotta watch the gain on FM. It can be too high or too low. You can easily go too high especially with cd and digital and too low with analog.
Other than that, they worked flawlessly. However, the build could have been a bit better; the panels on the amp and preamp were on the thinner side.
I would very much like to go back to FM, but the prices are that of a nice big house here in the US. It's rather ridiculous imo. I dunno who's buying this stuff, but they must be millionaires and billionaires.
If you have any other questions, let me know... |
Hi Bvdiman - as Nvp has correctly pointed out, the A-46 has two switches on its front panel for Speaker A and Speaker B. I have to manually switch one off and the other on when alternating between speakers.
I use Auditorium 23 and Crystal Microdiamond speaker cables. As for the C-3800, no I haven't gotten round to listening to it yet.
Hi Nvp - no problem with your FM Acoustic question since I too would be interested in learning the answer!:)
When I compared the A-46 and P-6100 I used my E-560 integrated as the preamp (there is an Ext Pre button to press). Even though the 6100 was very good, I believe the class A sound is a better match for a speaker with ribbon tweeters. |
Bvdiman, unlike most of the old Accuphase power amps, the new amps (i.e. including the A-46 amp) have two sets of speaker terminals and therefore also on/off buttons (on the front panel) for each set.
Also Bvdiman, would you care to share with us your thoughts on FM Acoustic vs. Accuphase electronics. Dave, who also posted here is interesting in buying one of these two brands. (Since there are not that many posts and/or contributors to this thread, I hope Classact will not mine this "distraction".)
Classact, interesting to hear that you have found the A-46 to be better than the P-6100 amp. What preamp have you used for this comparison?
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