I dont think Taters was asking for a definition of the term "audiophile"...missing his point entirely..... |
Tea and crumpets would be nice, thank you. |
Tennis is boring, old school, and a dinosaur sport.
Basically irrelevant. |
Tennis actually requires more agility, concentration and endurance than almost any other sport known to man. Irrelevant, I should say not! Now Mcintosh gear on the other hand...maybe so:) |
Dave,
I think you missed the underlying message. |
audiophiles are not defined by the equipment they own.
there is large sample of brands from which to chose.
there is no reason to disqualify the attribute "audiophile" from being applied to a person who owns mac gear. |
I am not an audiophile. I am a music-phile. Who has the time to spend listening to a 100k system in this day and age anyways?
I listen to my system about 2 hours a day while dictating (can you guess my profession). No one else in my house (nor my wife) has keys to my system nor do they want to as they are busy playing with their ipods, etc.
Suits me fine. |
Dave b, you need your ears cleaned out, maybe lay off the funny cigarettes,the hard cold truth is that the Krell 400Xi Integrated with their SACD Standard has PALE compared to Mac's C-200 and ANY new Mac amp such as the entry level 252 all driven by a Mac 861 or 871, not even close my friend. Even a Mac integrated SMOKES that Krell, I KNOW for a fact haveing had your Krell pieces here at the same time for months. The Krell gear is not bad, but sounds thin, strained, shouty, full of glare and grit...very HiFi'ish sounding, not relaxed liquid musical clear and 3 dimensional like Mac gear does. Very few can afford to compare gear at home side by side, the BS stops here.
I'd take Mac over ANY supposed high end gear, you name it, I've had it here. |
Mr. Splittie:
From your description, I have indeed guessed that you and i share the same profession: 'Dictators' of the household! But at only 2 hours per day, you are still in training by my standards!
Seriously, though, kudos to you for focusing on the enjoyment of music. That is my goal, as well. |
Hifizgreat, sorry friend but I just cleaned my ears and now my stuff sounds even better! Look, I've owned most of the Levinson, BAT, ARC, Krell lineup and the odd piece from CJ plus various budget lines like NAD, Rotel etc... Speakers have been Totem Wind/Forest, Wilson WP 6's, Magnapan 3.6R, B&W 801N, Martin Logan, Dynaudio C6, Krell Res 2's plus...all musical great gear. Cables have been about every major brand available i.e. Transparent, MIT, Siltech, Nordost, Cardas, Straightwire, Monster Sigma, the list goes on. My current 400xi/sacd combo with $20k worth of MIT Oracle Dot 2 cabling and Transparent MM PC's delivers an extremely musical presentation, not unlike that which one experiences in a great hall such as the BSO! This is a secondary system (I have had 4 400xi's over the years for various duties around my house which were eventually gifted or sold. As I said before, Mcintosh is good gear...it just aint GREAT GEAR...GET IT!! You need to sell Mc stuff, that's fine. I can buy anything I want. Right now I have an inexpensive system set up while I decide what's next...but it's gonna be very difficult to better my Krell system at any price. I would not trust your ears based on the nonsense you have spewed forth regarding the Krell combo. My system is open for demo...by the way, you must truly appreciate live music in order to converse properly or understand what music reproduction should deliver at home. Any Harbison, shostakovich, Bantok, Rochberg, Carter or Corigliano cued up for a listen when comparing gear? I thought not. By the way, I owned the MC501's, C46 and C200. In addition, I recently owned the krell evo 402, 222 nd 525 followed by the ARC HD220 and Ref 3...I like the 400xi/sacd combo better! But what do Martin Colloms and I know, we have only been around this high end scene for 35 plus years. |
FYI, my response to Hifizgreat is predicated on the fact that the Krell 400xi/sacd standard are being run balanced. Removing the standard and or switching to single ended connections would null my opinion, even though the pair would still be competitive with a wide array of other high end equipment. |
I own McIntosh and I am an audiophile . It's the only brand you buy and hate to sell |
Really? That might be a stretch, there are other brands and for certain many random products within brands that people hesitate to sell. |
No. McIntosh is kitschy looking overpriced Mid Fi with chromed plastic knobs. GROSS!!! |
Having actually owned McIntosh, the knobs are metal. I had an amp damaged in shipping and some knobs were damaged and I had to replace them. |
The Mc452 is rated highly by serious reviewers. Here's an interesting amp shootout of 41 amps where McIntosh does well. http://www.amp-shootout.com/2.html |
Yes they did 50 years ago. |
If you go about it right you can make very good sound with Macintosh just like many others. |
I do agree with one sentiment it is overpriced. How did this get started again 7-8 years later? |
I was the original op on this post and I have since heard a lot of mc gear. Even though I think it is good stuff I still prefer my ARC gear better. I think the Mac gear has better resale than ARC. The funny thing is 8 years since I started this thread Mc and Arc are owned by the same company. Who would of ever guessed that 8 years ago. |
I have only admired one Mcintosh piece, the 50W-1 Power Amplifier. I have only heard one once. The rest are for bling. |
I think the more interesting question is who buys McIntosh Speakers? You never hear about them in any of the forums or see any print coverage or show coverage, yet McIntosh has been making them for decades - someone must be buyig them? Any good? Overpriced? As for my 2 cents on the electronics, I am surprised no McIntosh historians (of which I am not one) have weighed in. From what little I know, after the vacuum tube heyday they made transistor gear (like everyone else) which sucked, were bought out at least once in between or more, and then in the late '90s started making great stuff again. I have owned the MC300 and C15 combo, the MA6900, the 70's MA5100, and the MC240 and C22. Before getting long, two specific anecdotes. 1) I had B&W Matrix 802's in the late 90's and only when I paired them with the McIntosh MC300 did I feel like I was getting the best out of the speakers. 2) I heard the MC402 a couple years ago that made a pair of Spendor speakers sound like some of the best music I have ever heard in an audiophile system... |
This is an interesting discussion. McIntosh has always been a class act. I have owned and still own (MR78) some of their equipment since 1969 when I bought a MA5100. I worked hifi retail in the 1970s and sold their equipment with no qualms and great enthusiasm. Over the course of time I met several Mac people, including Davey O'Brien, who ran their amplifier clinics, Gordon Gow, and Jim Carroll come to mind, there were others. Their equipment is built to very high standards and is quite reliable. I would say that it sounds very good, but is generally not - at least in most cases - what audiophiles (i.e. equipment centric people) are looking for. Because it is expensive and has a striking appearance it most definitely is a status symbol. People with a lot of money find it attractive. Since it looks good and sounds good, people who like music find it desirable. McIntosh has taken the high road over the years in terms of their marketing. Their clinics were a classic example. Another would be their insistence that their dealers buy expensive Wild-Herrbrugg microscopes and test equipment to check phono cartridges at a time when they did not offer phono equipment. They realized, however, that people in their target market appreciated and needed holistic support to get the most out of their expensive stereo systems. The company also spent time with their dealers covering not only floor layout and sound room design, but even holding training sessions on how to dress, how to greet customers, how to sell and so on for the sales staff. McIntosh was and is a remarkable company. No one ever got hurt buying McIntosh.
One funny anecdote about their speakers. The original speakers were the ML series, ML1, ML2, and ML4. When they came on the market, the store I was working at already had JBL SL8R and Paragon, Klipschorns, and Bozak Concert Grands on the floor. Since the ML4 and the Concert Grands seemed similar we paired them in the same room. Mac was not happy, but there was no room unless we dropped an existing line, something the store owner was not willing to do. Well we continued to sell Bozaks quite well, I think the Mac speakers actually helped Bozak sales. Anyway, eventually the K-horns went, and Mac had a room to dominate and they did better without ever becoming a big seller for us. Bozak and JBL continued to do very well. Then and now I think of Mac as a amplifier company above all else, and by the way, they offer speakers that seem pricey and don't sell well.
As for tuners, the MR78 is the best tuner they ever made, and they have made good tuners over the years. I like the sound of it and the selectivity and sensitivity of it really well. FM is still vibrant and alive and this tuner is a joy to listen to. |
Jimmy2615, when going to a CES show in Vegas some years ago the guys next to me were raving about the new McIntosh speakers. One told the other that he should immediately go and hear them. I decided to do so myself. After checking in and dropping my suitcase in my room, I went to the McIntosh room. I was welcomed by a pretty girl who gave me a brochure. I walked into the room which for a change had only music playing. It was terrible! I turned around and on passing her said that I had forgotten an appointment. I never heard anyone say that I needed to hear the McIntosh speakers at that show.
So I agree with you. I have owned only a McIntosh tuner and took it on trade. It was good. |
People can criticize McIntosh gear all they want but it is durable, well-made, aesthetically pleasing, sounds good, and holds its value. Not saying it is perfect, but I also don't understand where all the criticism comes from. |
The criticism if any be fair is that it is very expensive and that the sound quality not as wonderful as some would hope for such a high price. I think it works well in classic combinations, I own a 50W SS MC amp amp it does work with the my Klipsch speakers of that same general vintage. I think better sound can be had otherwise `obviously..... |
J_stereo, I think the criticism is from there being better sounding and cheaper equipment, but I agree that many like it looks and sounds good and holds its money. |
To me, it's a bit like the Rolex paradigm. The common person thinks Rolex is the best watch in the world because it's expensive and, if you're wearing a Rolex, you must have money. When I see someone wearing a Rolex, I assume the person is only wearing it as a status symbol and they're not really into watches. (I realize, of course, that this is not always the case.) There are far better watches and far more expensive watches but almost everyone knows the Rolex brand to be an expensive status symbol.
McIntosh doesn't have the same widespread brand recognition, so my comparison might be a bit off. On the other hand, I would hope that, if you're arbitrarily spending $5000+ on an Mac amp, you're at least mildly interested in listening to music and not just looking to impress a few friends who might know the McIntosh name.
I sure dig those blue lights, though... ;-) |
Mcintosh has been making audio amps and speakers since Jesus was in diapers. I heard a very large and very expensive all Mcintosh system in a chalet on Red Mountain in Aspen where Dave Brubeck went to practice way back in the early seventies. The centerpiece was some monster midrange horn. This Mcintosh system is what audiophiles really crave but can never obtain or even hear anywhere. Lol |
In the 40 odd years I've been at this I can't recall an instance of a famous company where ownership changed from the original owners where things went well. |
I will cite Marantz as an example of Schubert's good point.
With the Superscope purchase profits went up but quality certainly went down. |
I own a pair of McIntosh MC 60s,1956 vintage paired up with Zu Def IVs. Sounds pretty good to me. |
I find it interesting that many of the competitive brands mentioned here are actually more costly than McIntosh. For years, I've maintained "you can spend more money, but you can't get significantly better than McIntosh" and I still stand by that assertion. The build quality is second to none, the sound quality is entirely comparable to the other "names" and the value is without equal. I auditioned Audio Research, Cary, Classe, Krell, Linn and Mark Levinson before I went Mc, and all of them were quite a bit more expensive. Of them all, only the AR and Classe performed at the same level and were decidedly feature-limited in comparison. The happiest aspect of my purchases has been that I feel absolutely no need to revisit any of them. That one fact has permitted me to concentrate on what is truly the most important aspect of the audiophile hobby: Finding and listening to great music! |
Effischer, I believe you are correct.
But I would be GREATLY surprised if it remains so under new ownership. |
Classe,Mc,ARC. Three top notch product lines that focus on sound and quality and offer good value on the grand scale of things yet each is unique and will have its dedicated following. Like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc... |
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Tbg success over the long term speaks for itself. Think about it. |
No.
BTW...have you seen the Mc turntable? WOW! I find it laughable. I hear it comes with "Mcintosh" removable tattoos and a pack of Lime flavored Kool Aid. |
Looks like Mcintosh is reintroducing the MC75 Amplifier and C22 Preamp . |
I listened to a pair of speakers in Akron,Ohio(quite tall and many drivers) but I don't remember the model number and thought they sounded nice but did not seem to compare to some other makers I have heard like Merlin, Dunlavy, and Thiel.
I have always felt that manufacturers of electronics who do a excellent job and then try their hand into the world of speaker manufacturing seem to fall a little short when compared to a company who only makes speakers.
Does anyone seem to feel this way or am I off target? |
Depends on who brainwashed that "true audiophile". Some do some don't. Hi-end dealer is clear example of true audiophile, because brainwash is his direct responsibility to sell product he wants to sell. Everyone knows McIntosh being a sign of wealth and everyone wants it. Once they go to hi-end store, the dealer who don't have McIntosh will do McBrainWash. One brainwashed dood passing same bs onto the next just like chain reaction. |
Love those comments Alycat. |
Taters - Since you have managed to repeatedly bash McIntosh gear on multiple threads, please enlighten the rest of us and suggest gear that you think is "good" since you obviously feel that McIntosh is "no good". |
I think Mc intosh is fine gear. I even own a mint Mr-78 tuner though I never really use it. I just think their turntable looks ridiculous. Meters on a TT. Please. |
Taters, you might want to take a closer look at the "meter" (singular) on the MT-10. You'll discover it isn't.
Don't get me wrong; if you don't like what it looks like, that's why there are all those other manufacturers out there. |
The bottom line is Mc intosh doesn't even build their own TT. I believe clear audio makes it for them. It's made for the guy that wants it to match his other Mc gear. Call it what you will, but that is a fashion statement in my book. |
03-22-15: Taters
I think Mc intosh is fine gear. I even own a mint Mr-78 tuner though I never really use it. I just think their turntable looks ridiculous. Meters on a TT. Please.
I figured that! They own it, but don't use it. |
I would love to sell it but believe it or not my wife likes it. I guess even some woman like the look of Mc intosh. Go figure! |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and badge engineering or private labeling are time-honored ways to offer a branded product that fills a gap in the overall line. Virtually all producers of all product classes use them. Some people prefer Lexus to Toyota, Tudor to Rolex, Goodyear to Dunlop and so on. It would be a very boring world otherwise.
I personally fail to see how cosmetics can have an effect on objective performance. It reminds me of 25+ years ago when Ferrari was at the back of the F1 grid and switched to gold-colored wheels for the new season. A friend commented that it made the cars sound faster. Maybe they sounded faster and maybe they didn't, but those wheels sure got the attention Ferrari wanted. Apropos in this case, too.
FWIW, I don't happen to care for the looks of Mc tables. Triangle Art or VPI for that matter, either. I'm confident, however, their performance is totally acceptable. Does that make any of those brands, or any other for that matter, an acceptable value proposition? Welcome to a free market! |
I own all of one piece a pretty well used and showing its age early solid state 50W stereo amp. I have been through a pretty difficult divorce (sounds like most are) with my possessions ending up in a storage locker. My son upon opening the locker for me said Dad your McIntosh amp is here, trying to console me! I wanted the Jadis and other fine pieces my EX found space for some how, even things she doesn't know how to use, cest le guerre . |
