Hi ckoffend, I have a question about the Gemmes as compared to the Wilsons. I also had Watt Puppies (the 6), and I wished they sounded just like they did except for a kind of mechanical vocal, with a hard edge, almost buzz-like, sometimes also apparent on strings, with some stridency.
Otherwise, I loved the controlled detailed non-boomy bass and the non-piercing highs and the non-ringing upper midrange, in fact I enjoyed the whole frequency spectrum which I felt was very balanced.
How are the Gemmes on vocals/strings/mids in general in terms of being non-mechanical and just soft enough to be natural and not tiresome? Thank you for any comment, even a very short one. |
Not sure if the 3/30/11 question was directed at me, as I have the Katanas.
I have come to the conslusion that the stated required power for the Gemme Katanas is really not all that fair. In speaking with Robert, he conveyed that they spend a lot of time running at about 16 ohms (vs. 8) and as such that halves the power of a lot of amps.
In installing my ML 334 amp at 125 wpc @ 8 ohms I noticed some definate opening up of the sound stage (it should be noted that sound stage and imaging performance is well documented with this amp). I played around a lot more with placement of the speakers and thought I had the right spot which showed the improvement in soundstaging with the new amp. Then the other night, I decided to bring them out about 1" more and this really paid off in dividends. I tried them out even further than this in the past but lost some of the bass and moved them back (I should have taken them back about 1 inch at a time).
My toe-in is almost non-existant now. The sound stage laterally and depth is better. There is still little that goes on in front of the speakers unless such is really strongly addressed in the recording. But depth is better with the higher power and better placement.
I really have grown to love these speakers. My Watt Puppies have been sitting out of the room for about two months + now. To me that says a lot. The Katanas don't carry quite the same bass weight as the W/Ps. But they do offer a nice tight, fast and controlled bass that is compelling. I actually think I like the HF better with the Katanas than the W/P - a little smoother or less agressive (but not soft or rolled off).
I feel pretty comfortable recommending these speakers. Though I am interested in getting an even higher powered amp (something in the 200-300 wpc @ 8 ohm range) to see if the added power brings out more positive attributes. I am considering a Krell, ML 400 Series, Parasound JC-1, possibly a BAT 500 (less likely) or possibly something else. Suggestions would be welcome for another higher powered amp. |
any updates on your experiences with the Gemme Tantos? |
Yakbob, one thing that I can confirm is Robert's responsiveness. I have had similar experiences with such a small group of other companies, and when it does happen it makes one recognize they are working with a special (aka caring) company.
After spending some time communicating with Robert, he shared some ideas with me. I am planning on spending some time this weekend implementing and/or testing some of his suggestions and will post more after I have a better feel. |
I've been using the Gemme Audio Tanto IIs for about 6-7 months now. Main source is a Shanling SCD-T200 SACD/CD, routed through an Emotiva MMC-1 and IPS-1 amp.
While I'm not as eloquent or technically proficient as most on this board, I can say that the Tantos have a very clean and clear presentation. My wife, who could care less about audio, even comented on how much better they sounded than our last pair of mains.
The Tanto is neither forward or laid back, it presents a natural, wide, soundstage. I also slide the speakers back towards the walls when entetaining and while they do sound better about 18-24" from the rear wall in my room, they seem to be very forgiving of location. They do produce a healthy amount of bass for their size, but they do not sound boomy or "slow". They are forgiving in the sense that most of what I own sounds great coming out of the Tanto's. Granted, my components are decidedly mid-fi, but the speakers are no longer the weak link in my chain.
One thing to keep in mind is that with the Tanto, you're essentially paying for the cabinet. The speakers can be sourced from Madisound for apx. $75. And as you know, there is no crossover inside. I've always been a fan of the Vifa ring tweeter and the fact the Tanto uses one put it on my short list. Buying a couple of replacement units "just in case" is cheap and easy.
This speaker will be in my home for a long time to come. The sound is fantastic and the price I paid, reasonable.
If I could submit one complaint it's that stock spikes, while made from very heavy hunks of metal, make the cabinet tippy from side to side. But, you are able to mount the V3 outrigger style feet to the V2 Tanto. This should solve any tippyness issues.
Robert, the owner of Gemme is also quick to respond and helpful with any questions I've had pre and post purchase.
Best of luck with the search. |
Its funny you say you are not a "fan" of Sonus Fabers either, yet you have had them for 3 years. I know where you are coming from. I think they are a speaker that doesn't due harm and as such, it is easier to compare them to other speakers that while better in many areas, may have one or two issues that are just not completely satisfying. Leaving us with the product that has fewer faults but may not be totally satisfying. |
Thanks for the response Ckoffend. It was much appreciated. Similarly I am not a fan of Sonus Fabers although I'ved owned the Grand Pianos for 3 years. I'm surprised I managed to hang on to it for such a long time though. A friend was also having problems with his Cremonas before he switched to something else. |
Ryder, I own W/P 5.1s. I own both speakers (W/Ps and Katana to this day). Personally, I like the 5.1s better than the 6s (but recognize this is just my personal preference - not a statement that they are in fact better). I am not as much of a fan of the Sophia 1 & 2s as I am of the W/Ps (I have not listened to the 3s - fyi).
I have not seen the Soundstage review. When I bought my Katana's I couldn't find any reviews on them specifically, only the smaller Tanto model.
I am not familiar enough with the Naim equipment to comment on the synergy between the speaker and the Naim equipment. Though I am not a big fan of the Sonus speakers (for my target and likes - YMMV). |
Varyat, you may want to check the Naim forum. Some folks use Naim amps on the Katana and the system was said to sound better than all the Sonus Faber range of speakers which include the Elipsa and Guarneri. I'm not sure whether the Katana or the Tanto is the higher model, but your top of the line Naim amps should drive any of them well.
Ckoffend, a very good detailed assessment of the Katanas. In the Soundstage review of the Katanas the Wilson Watt/Puppy7 was used as a comparison too and the reviewer shares a rather similar experience. May I ask which Wilson model was compared with the Katana in your system? Sophia3 or Sasha? |
The bass is definately not wooly nor does the speaker ever feel slow. I tried to convey this above. My experience with somewhat "forgiving" speakers is that they often exhibit this sense of slowness - or rounding edges off. I don't like a "slow" speaker or sound. I do NOT feel these are slow speakers by any defination. I don't know your Naim amps really at all. I know they are purported to have a UK sound, somewhat drier (you would have to determine if this is an accuare description or not). But if my understanding that they are a drier amp, I think that the Gemme's would be a very good match with that type of sound - given that they are not an etched or strident sounding speaker.
Have you listened to a pair yet? Where are you located? You could probably contact Gemme to determine if there are any nearby owners and try to get in touch with them for a listen. I think you Naim amps are pretty manageable and I would think somebody would let you bring them over and hook them up.
Please note that my experience is only with the Katanas. |
Ckoffend: Thanks for that great response. In "forgiving" do you mean slower? I do not need a ton of bass but I want a speaker that times well and can keep up with the music.I thought that the Gemmes might be very capable due to their interesting lack of a crossover.I definitely do not want wooly bass. |
I have a pair of Gemme Katana speakers (version 2). I have not heard the Tanto's, but from reading reviews and talking to others, I get the impression there are a lot of similarities. I am currently running them (I switch between the Gemme's and Wilson W/P speakers) with a Pass Labs Aleph 5 which is rated at 60 @ 8 and 90 @ 4 ohms, all class A. This is a SS amp, but it is built in the tradition of a SET amp (I also own a 2A3 tubed SET amp), but with more "balls".
The Gemme speakers are very good in many regards. They will deliver what a lot of people or looking for. They are a lot more forgiving than my Wilsons (no surprise there). Yet they provide plenty of detail without ever becoming tiring. They are a smoother speaker - yet are not boring to me. The Katana does surprisingly well in bottom end, considering their driver size. This is reportedly due to their Vtech (I think is what they call it) design, which is a quasi (though I don't really see how) horn design. The Katana's do go down to the mid to lower 30s, which is really quite acceptable to me. I find them to be a fairly speedy speaker, surprising considering that they are somewhat forgiving (IMO). I often find "forgiving" speakers to feel slow or lack a degree of PRAT that I desire. The Gemme's do NOT bore me nor are they totally seductive. It should be noted, their soundstage is designed for a more further back row seat from center (ie. there is more depth behind the speakers than depth in front of the speakers). This is very counter to my Wilson's, but the Pass Labs amp may very well be contributing to this (as my Wilson speakers are further back sounding with this amp as well - I am on the quest to get another amp, if I do, I can update these notes). They have a fairly wide sound stage, certainly outside the speakers. They have fairly good focus - but not lazer like that one gets with the Wilson speakers.
The use the same drivers as Thiel, yet do so with a much easier to load/drive set-up. They are much less clinical or detailed sounding than the Thiels (which are much more like the Wilson's - FWIW I have owned both at the same time). I have tried the Gemmes with a 70 watt push pull tube amp, but didn't feel the match was perfect, a little too forgiving for my tastes.
I think they would be a pretty good match with Naim, but you should extrapolate my (and others) opinions on the "house" sound of the Gemme's to determine if that match may be good for your goals. I am in SW Michigan, so if you are close and want to bring your amp over and listen to my Katana's you are welcome to do so.
I think the Gemme's are very good speakers. I had mine before I bought my current pair of Wilson's (my 4th pair) and they are the first speakers I have owned at the same time as Wilson's that I just couldn't pull the trigger on to sell them (ie. the Gemme's). To me, that says a lot about them. It may also say that I like a detailed, drier speaker most of the time, but also like to have the Gemme's to fall back on when I am looking for a sound that may be a bit more forgiving.
Room placement is important to get the very best out of them. However, I frequently slide my speakers back into the corner of the room if I am entertaining. The Gemme's continued to sound very good even when so far out of position - that is commendable and something the Wilson's don't do very well. The Gemme's definately have a much larger sweet spot - but that may be attributed to the less lazer-like focusing versus the Wilsons. |
