Grado Epoch 3

My Quads are the ESL2905 models, so they do have two extra bass panels, but even so, it isn't their strong point. I doubt my relatively new SME tonearm has worn bearings.

The problem is more likely in my one remaining ear (lost my left and half the sensitivity in the right when I was eight and was given streptomycin - which it ototoxic - for, ironically, ear infections). But I can't help what I hear. The Statement3 sounds best balanced between the tympani and Dame Janet Baker at 400Ω, and exudes some lushness at 100. Maybe I am doing it all wrong, but if it sounds the best to me that way, then that is what I'll carry on doing! I had been very disappointed with it when I used it as an MM with 47k loading. It was accurate, honest and boring. There was no joy, no foot tapping, no life. Those were the qualities I was trying to find as it looked like my Deccas were on their final rebuild. The MP-500 produced them, though not quite like a Decca. I bought a second SME table for it. The Sussurro MkII also disappointed me until again I connected it as an MC (I should have read the manual on the little USB 'key'! PL recommends connecting it as an MC and setting load at 470-1000Ω). I settled on 400, I don't have the option of 470 with the NuVista Vinyl. It's nearly as good as the Grado.

When my tonearm pods arrive from the UK my intention is to run the Reference, Statement3, Kontrapunkt C and MP-500. Fortunately the NuVista has five inputs and each can be set for MM or MC and all loadings and other options are remembered for each one.

One thing I believe we can all agree on is that these Grado cartridges are getting far less attention these days than they deserve.

Doggie, it is very odd that you prefer 100 ohms load on your statement 3. According to two sources it has an internal R of 74 ohms and an inductance of 8 mH, about 100X to 1000X higher than a typical LOMC. Moreover Grado recommends 10K to 47K. At 100 ohms, you are losing signal voltage to ground and the treble is likely to be rolled off. If it sounds best to you at 100 ohms, that suggests there is a problem somewhere.

I asked Grado about the proper load.

Their position is that MM and MC settings are false and foolish.

That the only way to set the cart is to try different settings to find which sounds best.

Quite right.

It has nothing to do with MC or MM - the cartridge requires high gain due to the low 1mv output - hence the OP's preferred 60db gain.

In terms of loading it is relatively unaffected, but the determining factor is more about the feedback loop and stability in the phono stage than the cartridge itself, so there is no "magic" number in terms of loading - only that in a decent phono stage with no instability issues, 47k should be relatively flat.

The resistive loading is pretty much like a tone control that tries to flatten the response curve. 47kΩ lets the high notes predominate, so the cartridge is detailed but scratchy.

Only in your system. At 47k the cartridge is flat - so you either have phono instability issues or worn tonearm bearings which - both of these issues would cause "scratchiness".

As the resistance is lowered (or the loading raised if you prefer to follow @audiofun’s terminology) you tame the highs and reveal the bass.

According to Grado the change in response loading down at 500 ohms is quite minor.

It might be my phono stage, or maybe my bass-shy Quad ESL speakers, but I find myself enjoying the Statement3 loaded at 100Ω

Yep - its your system - either the phono has issues or bad bearings in your tonearm which would give rise to high frequency issues. Your Quad 57's are not that extended in the top end.

@dogberry

I too have Quad 57s.

The Epoch3 is a wonderful match wt such “real” SQ.

I asked Grado about the proper load.

Their position is that MM and MC settings are false and foolish.

That the only way to set the cart is to try different settings to find which sounds best.

What is the best loading for it? MM at 47K or MC at 1000K? Or other?

Talking here about my experience with the cheapest member of the Lineage series, the Statement3. It is easy to sort out if you are able to set it up as an MC. The resistive loading is pretty much like a tone control that tries to flatten the response curve. 47kΩ lets the high notes predominate, so the cartridge is detailed but scratchy. As the resistance is lowered (or the loading raised if you prefer to follow @audiofun’s terminology) you tame the highs and reveal the bass. I wrote in another thread how I like to use Elgar’s Sea Pictures for this, as there are kettle drums and a pure contralto voice to balance up. It might be my phono stage, or maybe my bass-shy Quad ESL speakers, but I find myself enjoying the Statement3 loaded at 100Ω most of all. It’s nearly as good as the London Decca Reference! 😉

Dear @audiofun  : Great !.

R.

Thank you! Just exploring possibilities so far.

Terry9:

The Epoch tracks very well, no complaints. I think that less anti skate bias is better, at lease for my setup. Concerning Koetsu cartridges, I don’t have a great deal of experience. I have listened to the Onyx Platinum but it was not in my system. I simply don’t feel I have enough ear time with Koetsu cartridges to make intelligent commentary.

Thank you for your review. You don't mention tracking. Anything to say about that?  Also, I was wondering if you could compare it to a Koetsu.

Thanks!

Mglik:

My experience with the Epoch is the lighter the load the better, therefore I would say 47k ohms, as does the manufacturer.

raul:

Thank you, I now firmly recall that I eschewed ceramics because of possible issues with noise. It is rewired from the head shell mount straight through. I bypassed the horrid rca connectors that Technics had in place.

Dear @audiofun  : Good move to following with the ruby in the EPA 100MK2 ( ceramic are way resonant ), Technics knew what they did it.

You can improve the Technics whole quality performance making 2-3  must changes on it:

first, rewiring internally with the silver wire by Audio Note.

second, at the same time change the stock female output connectors for silver WBT ones and

third, change the headshell wires for Ikeda silver or Kondo silver.

After those changes what you will listening will have a " nigth and day " differences for the better.

Worth to try it due to its big rewards.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

I was very intrigued by all the hype about the Decca London Reference.

But, unable to buy one, I was directed to the Grado Epoch3.

I was using the great Lyra Atlas SL. The Epoch blew it away.

Such silent blacks. Such musical detail. Such incredible dynamics.

What is the best loading for it? MM at 47K or MC at 1000K? Or other?

Currently MC at 1000.

kinros:

It is super quiet in the grooves and it does pull a ton of information out. I hear things on the record the same CD doesnt’ really seem to reproduce well. I have my loading at 47K ohms. I have found the higher settings is where the Epoch thrives.

waytoomuchstuff:

I am sorrry about your bike accident. I fell off my bike circa July 2019 and ruptured my ACL so I know the journey back can be a bit rough. I would imagine that your injury, being to both hands was especially tough. Glad you’re on the mend! Sorry for the mishap with the cartridge, just a horrible feeling. I destroyed my former MC Anna once with a miscalculated hand movement. Knocked the arm out of its resting place and the stylus hit the vinyl violently. I shone a light on the vinyl and a glint hit my eye, I knew it was my stylus. Waves of sickness rushed through me. Four thousand dollars later ($3800) and I was back in business but it took me months to get over the tagedy. I need friends like you that give out world class cartridges. Christmas is coming up and I am thinking of a Grado Reference or Aeon 3 Mono to add to the table, wink wink.

dogberry:

Thanks. I did find the site last evening. Welcome news indeed.

@audiofun must be other differences in my system, but there again, I have the Statement not the Epoch!

The successor to John Wright now has a very basic website up at londondecca.com but it doesn’t say who is behind it. John has said:

All servicing work and manufacturing will be undertaken here in the UK by a specialist cartridge maker, who has been making high end cartridges in the UK for the last thirty years.

I did hear a rumour that it might be Northwest Analogue, but nothing definite.

I crashed my bike about a year ago.

Now, I’m sure you’re thinking’ "What the %&*@ does crashing a bike have to do with a phono cartridge?!!!"

Okay, here goes:

Due to a mechanical failure on a new bike (manufacturer’s defect with subsequent recall) I hit the ground with enough energy to break my left hand and incur soft tissue damage in both wrists. After cast removal and a few weeks in rehab, my grip was somewhere around 30% in my left and 50% in my right hand

I’ve been a Grado dealer since the early 80’s and had been eyeballing the new Epoch 3. I thought it would be a right cartridge to gift to an old friend with a budding interest in quality audio. I ordered the unit and it arrived.

We live a few hours apart, so I thought I’d take a photo of the cartridge and tease him a bit until I got a chance to make it over there to install it. So, out of the box it came, with stylus protector attached. It needed to come off for its glamour shoot. Having familiar "junk" on my workbench laying around in the photo would make it more personal.

Being a cautious audiophile, I knew these things were pretty delicate, so proceeded as such. I guess I had overestimated the control I had with my hands and the cartridge slipped out of my grip as I was removing the stylus protector. It was when I positioned in on the bench for the photo shoot that something was amiss. The stylus was drooping down flat on the cartridge body. Needless to say, this was not the highlight of my day. I found out the hard way that a firm grip is a necessary tool of audiophiles.

Glad to see a strong approval for the cartridge. It put a smile on my face this morning.

Mean't to add that I use a SME 20/3 with an SME V arm.

Really interesting article. I have not heard the Epoch 3 but recently installed it's little brother  - Aeon 3.

I like you eventually settled on raising the rear of the cartridge slight above horizontal and it made the cartridge come alive. Also use it on MC settings on the phono stage at 10000. A much more involving sound. Thing which has blown me away with cartridge is the detail it retrieves from the groove but without surface noice - no idea how they have managed this??

jpjones:

I believe another reason I went with the jewels was due to some concerns around noise with the nitride or ceramic bearings (I think it was a concern with the ceramics) but as I stated it has been a minute and I don’t recall all of my conversations. I am, however, paying attention to your statements and may very well try the Nitride bearings. My saphires were expensive and come from a Swiss Lab. I don’t have the specs in front of me but the sphericity was, well Swiss lab grade :) very high.

FYI my SP 10MK 3 based NGS SE does use your Fidelis Analog FA6042 Pitch Synthesizer. Thank you for that contribution!

I can't think of any reason to do jeweled bearings on an EPA arm aside from nostalgia.  It's also exceedingly difficult to get anything approaching grade 5 or better.  Last I looked grade 25 is all that was reasonably available.  

noromance:

You are correct concering  proper run-in with audio gear. My unlce used to go through so much gear and then he would tell me how for instance one dac smoked the other. I stopped really putting any stock in his assertations because he might only have a piece of gear for 2 or maybe 3 weeks before it was out the door. I would always tell him that he actually has no idea how the piece sounds because he never gave it a chance. 

So a correction or two. I went down to the cave to check the settings for the PH 77 and I have been running the Epoch 3 in MC mode (not MM/MC Hi as I mistakenly mentioned above) at 60dB of gain loaded at 47k ohm. I keep the display of the PH 77 off unless I am changing its settings. I tried higher loading and the result was exactly what I expected it would be, a dull warmed over, and seemingly slower sound delivery. I tried 350 ohms, that was like putting a blanket over the system, and then 500, 750 and 1500 ohms. It got progressively better as the cartridge was more lightly loaded, but once back to 47k ohm, magic again. In my system with the AMR PH 77 the Epoch is best at 60dB, 47K ohms. I am not implying that it wont or can't sound better in another system more heavily loaded. YMMV

Nice review. Proves that running in is necessary before making one’s mind up on new equipment. I have 4 Decca cartridges in service so I’m also delighted that JW has found a replacement company for London Decca.

tomic601:

Thank you. I am glad you enjoyed it, typos and all. 

dogberry:

I am definitely going to try running it as a MC on the PH77 tonight with different loading. I wanted to mention that going from 47k ohms to say 400 or 100 ohms is not actually "lower" loading, it seems counterintuitive but it is actually "higher" loading. The lowered resistance will flow more current thus you are more heavily loading the source. Just some nerd knowledge I thought I’d put out in the ether.

Please forgive my typos and the errant use of some commas in the original post. I should have proof read a bit better.

The EPA 100 MK 2 was chosen specifically for the London Reference because of its unique adjustable damping system.

Dover:

Thank you. I am aware of the nitride bearings and almost went with them. There was some discussion that caused me to go with the jewels but it’s been a while and I don’t recall all of the reasons, but I think stiction was one of the main decision factors. If I don’t like them, I can always try the nitride bearings. I am aware of the "less than optimal effective mass" of the EPA 100 Mk 2 but recall that this arm has the adjustable damping system which is "supposed" to mitigate much of that dependance. We shall see :)

Dogberry:

Thanks for all the information. I was unaware that John found someone to take over! I am so glad to read that information as it would have been a shame to not have recourse if something adverse (or just wear) were to happen to my London. I just got it back from John about a month ago and now have 25 hours on the London. When the Epoch 3 was being used with the DartZeel it was being run as a MC as the newer Zeels no longer facilitate MM cartridges. On the PH 77 it is set up as MM/MC Hi at 47K ohms. I will take your advice and play around with it set for MC and try various loads, should be fun. Would you happen to know to whom the mantle has been passed as it relates to the London? Thanks!

Great review and thread :-)

This sounds rather familiar! When my London Reference went off for a rebuild I thought it would be the last ever. Thank goodness John Wright found someone to take over! Anyway, I bought three moving iron pickups to see what might make a replacement. The Grado Statement3, Soundsmith Sussurro MkII and a Nagaoka MP-500. My conclusions are to be found online. Of relevance to you is to treat the Grado as an MC as far as your phono stage is concerned. I have used a Quad 24p and a Musical Fidelity NuVista Vinyl with the Statement3. Its output at 1mV might be treated as an MM or as an MC by a phono stage. Using it as an MM with 47kΩ loading (capacitative loading made no difference as advertised) was awfully boring. Once I connected it as an MC and started to play with resistive loading I was amazed to hear how it came to life with lower loading. 400Ω seemed accurate, and 100Ω was most musical and entertaining. Now I am enjoying it as much as my Reference on my other table. I assume the Epoch3 is somewhat similar in phono stage settings. As far as comments about tonearms go, I am no expert but use an SME Series V for the Reference and an SME M10 for other carts on the second SME table - I found myself buying a second SME turntable so as to be able to use a good cartridge to spin out what I thought was the last gasp of life of the London Reference! And now I know the Reference will be able to be rebuilt in the future I have found myself adding two more tonearms to these two tables via tonearm pods machined in the UK. Ignore all that; play with resistive loading for the Epoch3! I think you might be amazed.

@audiofun 

Great review. I do have some suggestions for you to consider -

The technics will hold the London Reference and is having the bearing replaced with lab grade saphires.

In my view you would be better off with silicon nitride balls. This is what JCarr uses in his EPA100 and I note that @jpjones3318 recommends this upgrade.

Some info here

https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/tonearm-bearing-repair.6173/

With regards to the Decca - I’ve set up about 30-40 of them - I would have thought the Technics would be less than the optimal effective mass. You can purchase counterweight rings to add mass to the original counterweight in Japan.

As an aside, I have owned the original Ikedas for many years, since the 80’s in fact. Isamu Ikeda eschewed the use of jewelled bearings with low compliance cartridges - thought they sounded brittle. Another reason to revisit your choice of bearings for the Technics arm.