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HELP PLEASE - VPI Classic Signature 3D Arm or Dr. Feickert Woodpecker Jelco Arm

Need some help guys from the well informed analog folks.

VPI Classic Signature w/3D arm - New Open Box  - Soundsmith Carman MKII Cart is brand new

or

Dr. Feickert Woodpecker Jelco arm static demo - Dynavector 20x2 Cart is brand new

Both tables are either static demo’s or open box and mint and from reputable dealers the carts are brand new and will be mounted for me. 

Both are around $4,400 price all in. 

I’m open to other options but landed on these two for best for the price I thought and these are the carts for this price target that each dealer can offer. Trying to not make things too crazy option wise but I always get great info from you guys so please share any and all thoughts. What one would you get? Either? 

Here in my situation:


I just finished up a full system re-fit with some tweaking here and there still to do but I am extremely happy with the sound I’m getting today from my new to me system.

Best I’ve personally ever had. I’m pretty psyched - so psyched I want to add a turntable and a decent / competent but reasonable priced cart to startout and then if needed I can upgrade later.

Will these tables have a legit chance to be at least as good as my Digital do you think?

Could they sound better or no chance? Everyone says vinyl is better when using decent enough equipment so I’ll list the rest of my rig below to get your opinions.

Would love some feedback / ideas / thought recommendations and help. I’m a digital guy and want to give vinyl and honest to goodness try.

For my phonostage I just purchased the dual mono Phono board modules for my
Mark Levinson No.326s linestage so it’s now a full function Preamp with built in phonostage as well which was done at a reasonable cost which is great! 

Here is some other info that may be relevant. Thanks so much for the help!

** Back Ground info**

** Room is ** 
14 x 24 w/Cathedral Ceilings - 16 Foot a peak

** Music likes **
Assorted Music but no metal or loud hard rock anymore really - not much Large Scale classical either but everything else. I listen just loud enough to sound its best but not a loud listener. I enjoy normal levels. 

** Likes / Priorities **
Transparency - Delicacy - Linear - High resolution - microscope but not sterile not etched or lifeless -some natural warmth and life to the music is key  but love that see through transparency and love precise soundstage - remove as many layers without being clinical - tight bass - hate flab - but don’t need worlds greatest slam but love speed and accurate bass while being musical.

** Perspective **
I’m only a couple months into this new system and I was struggling to get the right Preamp and tried a half dozen or so searching for the right balance and the one that could bring my new system together like only the perfect matching preamp can do. Each system is different so really it must be heard to know it’s what you want. I believe in the Preamp and knew If I could find the right match it would change everything. Well that was the hope.

To make a long story longer the Mark Levinson No.326s preamp did this and more. I was hedging my expectations based on the disappointments of the others I tried and failed but the No. 326s nailed it and honestly it an incredible Preamp and then some. I was so happy I decided to upgrade and add the built in phonostage option and here we are :) 

System:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

- Magico S5 Loudspeakers 
- Pass Labs X350.5 Amplifier
- Mark Levinson No.326s Preamp/phonostage
- Bricasti M1 Special Edition DAC
- PS Audio P10 Power Plant 
- Kubala-Sosna Emotion SC’s
- Nordost/Cardas IC’s 
- Assorted PC's Verastarr/Cardas

- Digital PC based front end that I have been tweaking and evolving:
- Sonore microRendu 1.4
- Full Suite of UpTone Audio Gear
(2) x LPS-1 Ultra Capacitor PS
JS-2 Linear Power Supply
(2) Regens - ISO/Amber
- (8) Canare / Oyide DC cables 
- (2) Breeze Audio 12v LPS
- Tellurium Q Black Diamond Reference USB cable
- Curious Regen Link USB Cable.

This Digital Front End beat out: Lumin, Antipodes, Naim and Auralic servers. It needs everything to work so well but man does it work great. My hope is that a turntable can complete and wish some luck I end up liking it better. That’s why I’m asking for help. I want to put my best vinyl foot forward for the budget it listed as I already own the Phonostage so my budget is for table, arm and cart. 

Really appreciate any help you can provide! I know this is kind of long but wanted you guys to know where I’m coming from! If you would like more info please let me know - all comments and feedback are most welcome and deeply appreciated :)








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fsmithjack OP
712 posts
 
Great info - thanks 

ive thought about pooring remaining Audio resources into digital but the option there would be an expensive server. 

The reason ive decided not to go that route really is Brian at Bricasti. His digital in my opinion is some of the best in the world for the money. He has for the last 2 years been developing and continuing to build and tweak a new Ethernet based media server that he installs and builds right into the Bricasti M1SE. The Bricasti factory is about a half hour from my house and after the holidays I’m dropping my DAC off for this great upgrade.

All the USB, S/PDIF or IS2 based servers or players won’t apply. I’m also of the opinion that Ethernet is where Digital is heading and fast. Why because I believe it’s the best and the future. microRendo taught me what a Ethernet based system can do and what that medium is capeable of.  Now I’m taking it up a few notches. In the Ethernet based program it is converted to IS2 right before the DAC chips, pure and clean internally so it removes the cable impedance matching issues and noise and all that leakage and parasitic noise. Once I install this upgrade I’ll want to make sure the server feeding the music via Ethernet is as fast and modern and as clean as possible. All solid state based. I’ll want the best while requiring lowest power processor and the most modern and best ram and the best Solid State Hard drives to hold the OP system and software and best solid state drives holding the music and an excellent linear power supplies to power the modem, router, switch and server all plugged into the PS Audio P10 then running the best Ethernet cabling right into my Bricasti. This is already my plan as I have the PC in mind already. The I7 Sonic Transporter by Small Green Computer but with the rare special order version of windows to run both JRiver amd HD player. Paul Pang Ethernet switch with his Custom Femto based linear power supply and upgraded premium and ultra quite voltage regulation. Paul Hynes dual rail S5 linear Power Supply. Uptone Audio JS-2 Linear power supply. This should I hope be some pretty serious digital or at least in so far as Ethernet based which I believe is the best and the future. There should not be a cd or sacd player that can touch it at any price.

All this said - this plan is already in place and in process on the digital side. 

Ive got a few funds earmarked to take a shot at some vinyl. Trust me I won’t be surprised is if this digital wipes the floor of the vinyl but something in the back of my mind says not so quick.

Everyone - everywhere has stayed over and over again the excellent vinyl beats incredible digital and I’m fixing to push my Ethernet digital out on the cutting edge while hoping to put together a competitive enough vinyl rig that makes me want to spin some records.

I ‘lol be using same Speakers, same Amp, same Preamp, same Cables in the same room so it will be nice to see where it goes.

if this vinyl has no shot then I’d love to hear the thoughts and feedback. 

I very much appreciate the help. I know my digital and just learning about vinyl so any and all feedback is deeply appreciated! 
m-db's avatar
m-db
995 posts
 
I learned early on, everything is important except looks.

Unlike the electronically generated digital signal analog begins its journey from a mechanical source suspended and excited by mechanical means. Compared to digital the variables are astronomical. Even so the cartridge source remains much closer to an actual instrument.

At $4000 the speed stability while under play of the Technics SL 1200G will better most five and six figure decks. Its inert design and industrial level drive will last a beyond a lifetime. Replace the arm (which equals those of your sellected tables) and select a smart cartridge and your very near the state of the art for under twenty grand. Just a thought.

Fifty years ago Lotus produced the Elan. A brief drive would school your senses as to what an automobile is supposed to do. Well chosen parts and crapy paint. Here's where the awkward looks rears its duckling head.

https://www.dagogo.com/merrill-replica-es-r1-turntable-review/2/ 

The money you save on the little Merrill should be budgeted on a much better source cartridge in the Benz Micro Glider price level or more.
jmwick
24 posts
 
My two cents worth.
For years I had a Sota Star Sapphire with a SME V arm, a wonderful setup. Two years ago I decided to make some changes. I have listened to the VPI with the 3D arm ( a friend had one ) as did my local high end dealer. It was nice, but I just wasn't a fan of the arm. So, I went into N.Y.C. to audition the Feickert Woodpecker with the Jelco arm.
I cannot say one sounded better because of different speakers, electronics, etc., but the Woodpecker was built like a tank, evidencing its teutonic heritage. Reviews were also very good.
I ended up with the Feickert Firebird with the Kuzma 4 point and after two years of use i couldn't be happier.
dgarretson
2,601 posts
 

Several excellent ideas above. At the $4k level you have many good choices. After decades with an evolving VPI TNT and a bespoke Mark Kelly speed controller, I’m more impressed with vintage direct drive tables like Luxman PD-444 and Kenwood L07D, both of which are within your range. Neither requires replinthing, though both benefit from better footers and good siting. For an innovative belt drive, check out Fern & Roby’s factory-direct top model. It uses the same Hurst motor as VPI, but with a more sophisticated closed-loop speed controller that compensates for variations in belt tension and wear. It can be had with F&R’s own tonearm, or an optional Schroeder arm at a higher price. I have a source for a Feickert Woodpecker at a cheaper price than you mention. PM if that is of interest. That’s also a great choice.

As we have similar digital set-ups that include Ethernet-to-USB endpoints with USB conditioning and linear DC power supplies, I have an idea of your performance level with digital. My MicroRendu was lately replaced with top SOtM pieces and a custom EN hub, all synchronized to a 10mHz master clock and powered by a Hynes SR7 master power supply. Sounds great, but still not quite as satisfying as my vinyl rig(distortions and all, with due respect to Raul!) You’re moving in an interesting direction with vinyl, provided that you’re willing to put time and effort into optimal setup. I’m not sure that the Levinson integrated phono preamp will get you there, but worth a try.

mmakshak
589 posts
 
I just want to respond to Raul.  I agree that digital is getting better, but don't fall for the "it's more accurate" argument.  One way to determine is whether or not you are actually listening to the music, or are you thinking about something else, or what song to play next.  If you are, something is missing.  That something, although it may not be measurable, makes digital less accurate in that way.
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