How much LF info on LPs?


Hi.

I would like to ask how much audible Low-frequency information do you get from your speakers when spinning vinyl? I know that vinyl definitely doesn't go as low as CDs. That being the case, then wouldn't speakers with good bass extension be irrelevant and a waste of money in a vinyl-only system? I've noticed that big bass=big money, in general. What are your experiences?

I didn't find this anywhere in the archives. If it is there, please direct me.

Thanks!
nismo
I wonder if you are refering to the RIAA curve? It was learned a long time ago that low frequency signals require a lot more space on LPs than do higher frequencies. For that reason the curve was introduced. Any reasonable phono stage is going to replace the LF that is reduced in the pressing.
TWL is exactly right is his comments. LPs contain more bass than CDs are capable of holding due to the terrible design flaws incorporated when building the originals. That is one of the reason new formats like SACD and DVD-A are coming out. The manufacturers are trying to make machines which are capable of reproducing sound as well as a *basic* turntable. Digital has a long way to go to get there. They will probably never match the sound quality of better turntables!
The signal is there in vinyl, you just have to be able to retrieve it!
As stated above, there's no question that vinyl can go quite low, but deep bass is one of the few areas, maybe the only area, where Redbook standard CDs can actually exceed the performance of well pressed vinyl. Very deep bass on vinyl is constrained by the physical limits of the groove width. Loud music requires wide grooves. Deep bass requires wide grooves. The problem arises when you try to have loud deep bass because you'll fairly quickly run into playback tracking problems. At 60Hz this is not an issue and I believe it only becomes serious once you start to get below 40Hz. There's also the issue of running time per side of vinyl. Large amounts of deep bass cuts down the running time available per side. As a practical matter it is very rare for mastering engineers to purposely press vinyl with sub-30Hz info. Also deep bass on vinyl is always (100% of the time) mixed mono. Redbook CDs can have true channel independence down to any frequency.
My Linn LP12 SME 309 and Shure V15 transmit lots of bass ! Its actually quite unbelievable how much bass and its clear and well defined too. I like to get the Led out. If Lps didn't rock I would not be spending every waking moment searching for more LPs !(Just kidding about the last comment, just don't ask my wife)
I have yet to own a CDP with bass that even begins to approach the bass produced by vinyl. I have an SACD player too and it's still not even close. I'm not sure where some of these comments about the merit of digital bass originate?!? Everything about the design is flawed. It's undersampled, under-clocked, and poorly transfered.
Nismo:

Try listing you complete system.

If you are experiencing a lack of bass from your TT (with a variety of source material) then something is probably mis-matched or a poor performer.

Even with small monitors (granted that they do not have a steep roll off in the LF's) you should "on a whole" be getting better bass response from your LP's.

I use old Thorens TT's (also have a TD165 -w- the stock arm that is not listed with my system) and they perform quite well in the LF's when set up properly with the right cartridge. The best bass comes from a 20 year old Ortofon cartridge (F15-EII), not the Grado Silver.

Considering that I am getting good results from cheap/cheap/cheap battery powered phono preamps and budget TT's/cartridges I think that you need to take a closer look @ your setup.

You could first try shimming up your TT mat which will affect vertical tracking angle (VTA). Cut a round (or rounds) of felt (you can usually pick up squares of it for $1 @ most fabric shops) and place it on top of your existing mat. This will lower the tail end of the cartridge and increase bass response. I only have three cartridges on hand, but all of them perform better when the tail end drags a bit lower than what the manufacturer specifies, so this may be a common occurance.

If this works then look to see if your tonearm has a VTA adjustment. I set my arm's VTA for the thickest LP's that I have and then use a shim mat when playing thinner stock.

Hopefully it will be something as simple as this.