Importance of Amplifier versus Preamp?

01-26-15: Mapman
The better highly efficient Class D amps out there today, and some are quite good, can deliver 500w/ch or more for comparable cost to lower power Traditional less efficient Class A/B or certainly class A amps, tube or SS.

So you can get efficiencies in speaker, amp or both these days.

True enough. But I think that a more apples to apples comparison illustrating the point Minorl and I have been trying to make would be comparing the prices of the Pass amps as you go up the line in power within a given series (e.g., X.5 or XA.5 or X.8 or XA.8). Or within the ARC Ref series of amps, or among Atmasphere amps, or any number of other such examples that could be cited.

Bottom line is you have to get things matched well to keep costs under control. I'd get speaker/room interactions right first using a suitable amp for the speakers, in order to be in a position first to access source sound quality meaningfully, and then tweak the pre-amp and source from there. How can one assess the sound quality of a pre-amp without the stuff downstream needed to make the music in place properly first?

Agreed completely.

Best regards,
-- Al

Of course, for the computer audio crowd these days, the rage is to remove the pre-amp and just have a good output stage and volume control in the DAC. This is basically the old passive pre-amp idea. I am still of the mind that the pre-amp matters, assuming levels and impedance match up OK. But lots of people are going without pre-amps these days. As to integrateds, one of the old standards the Naim Nait 5 is passive, it has no pre-amp state in it. They just concentrate on the power amp section.

Just wanted to throw in another option.

I believe the preamp is more important, this was evident as I moved up the food chain... most important though is the synergy between the preamp , amp and speakers. You can have great equipment that doesn't gel vs. very good gear that sounds right together.

"01-26-15: Dtc
Of course, for the computer audio crowd these days, the rage is to remove the pre-amp and just have a good output stage and volume control in the DAC. This is basically the old passive pre-amp idea. I am still of the mind that the pre-amp matters, assuming levels and impedance match up OK. But lots of people are going without pre-amps these days. As to integrateds, one of the old standards the Naim Nait 5 is passive, it has no pre-amp state in it. They just concentrate on the power amp section."

There's really nothing wrong going directly to an amp either. Its just a matter of how well its implemented and what you're personal preference is. I've been using Wadia CD players for years. I can get good sound with or without a preamp.

Your Naim example is excellent. If there was ever a case to be made about using a passive in a budget integrated, the Nait 5i I had was it. That thing was nothing short of a train wreck. One of the worst pieces of audio gear I've ever heard or bought. They just tried to do too much at that price point. Naim should have left it passive. Compare that to my Creek 5350SE that used a passive preamp in it
and there was no comparison. Even though both amps were about the same price, you would never know it based on SQ.

Interesting how much emphasis you guys are putting on Preamps. I always thought that the Amp was more important, but at the same time my system didn't sound right until I got a Lightspeed Attenuator.

I like the idea of only shelling out $500 for a Preamp that in my opinion just let the signal through with no coloration and not really lacking anything either. For someone like me it also opens up more $ for other things, usually amp.

I figured good source, going into a good dac, into a lightspeed, a good amp matched correctly to speakers, room treatments and you're good to go. Adding a $3000 preamp would increase my total system cost by 33%...

I don't get why preamps have to have source selections on them either. Seems like a waste for someone who is just going to be switch sources on an external dac anyways.

Interesting and very informative thread. Even though I have heard all this before, for some reason it clicked for me this time.

Someone made the point that you can achieve better results matching different manufacturers amp and preamp because one company excels in pre's and the other in amps; I like this idea and believe it to be true also,

Next question for me is what is lost using a Lightspeed vs a $3000 pre amp, and, what are the most loved pre amps by you guys? Tube?